4 ms·

None of the fines were for data falsification. Now we know not to trust albatross13.

by lern_too_spel 4y ago

rob_c 4y ago
the inference being here that companies paying fines at this level are completely above board and trustworthy?
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  That's a crazy inference. Nowhere did I imply completely above board. Doesn't rampantly falsify data, yes. Completely above board and trustworthy, no. There are vanishingly few organizations that are completely above board and trustworthy.
  - rob_c 4y ago
    > Doesn't rampantly falsify data, yes. Completely above board and trustworthy, no. the 2 are equivalent given context, no?
    - lern_too_spel 4y ago
      No. They were fined for doing things like recommending off-label use for their drugs, and they provided no data to support that off-label use. That isn't falsifying data, but that isn't acting trustworthy either.
      - rob_c 4y ago
        Fined for being inscrupulous but are not unscrupulous... Ok I think I understand the faith.
        lern_too_spel 4y ago
        You very clearly don't understand. I said they aren't completely trustworthy and I never implied they are.
        rob_c 4y ago
        Then why make the comparison if it's not needed. It is enough to state one thing without comparing it needlessly to another.
        lern_too_spel 4y ago
        You're the one who needlessly and wrongly conflated not falsifying data with being completely above board and trustworthy. I've been trying to get through to you this whole thread that the two are not equivalent.
        rob_c 4y ago
        you only need to state don't feed the troll instead of feeding the troll
chiefalchemist 4y ago
$10 billion - for any reason - is suspect. No one is fined for doing a great job.
albatross13 4y ago
> he thinks none of these lawsuits contained data falsification claims https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/pfizer https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/pfizer > he thinks these whistleblowers and the BMJ are liars https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635 https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635 Now we know not to trust lern_too_spel :)
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  Point me to a specific fine for data falsification. Unlike you, I have made no false claims here.
  - albatross13 4y ago
    https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/violation-tracker/or-pfizer-inc https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/violation-tracker... follow up source: https://www.doj.state.or.us/media-home/news-media-releases/oregon-department-of-justice-reaches-landmark-3-34-million-agreement-with-pfizer/ https://www.doj.state.or.us/media-home/news-media-releases/o... Quote: "Today’s settlement follows a two-year investigation by the Oregon Department of Justice into evidence that suggested Pfizer was using unreliable and unsubstantiated claims to promote Zyvox®, a relatively new and expensive antibiotic used for treating certain types of pneumonia and bacterial skin infections. Despite lacking evidence required by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to make such claims, Pfizer allegedly relied upon flawed clinical studies to substantiate assertions that Zyvox® was a superior to vancomycin, a comparatively inexpensive generic drug that holds the largest market share and has been available for more than 40 years. Pfizer’s sales representatives detailed and distributed thousands of copies of these faulty studies throughout Oregon to promote the sale of Zyvox®." Very long and pleasant way of saying "they lied". Not enough? How about Chantix: 1. https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/chantix-recall-2021-prompts-class-action-claims-pfizer-sold-misbranded-drug/ https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news... 2. https://www.youhavealawyer.com/chantix/ https://www.youhavealawyer.com/chantix/ Totaling almost 300 million in settlement payouts, they opted to do this AS A SETTLEMENT rather than let things drag out in court. Hmm... I wonder why. Couldn't be because they lied, hide, or downplayed information about Chantix's impact on people's mental health. This lands in their top 10 in terms of pay outs :) And again, I will direct you to: https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635 https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635 While they haven't been fined for it yet (because their new contracts make it almost impossible :^) ), we have pretty substantial evidence Pfizer lied about a myriad of data points collected at at least one facility in regards to their covid19 injection trials. But hey, at the end of the day I don't care what you believe beyond this post. You can defend the ultra corrupt big pharma company that bakes hundreds of millions in fines into its yearly operating budget. Makes no difference to me, I'm healthy :)

None of the fines were for data falsification. Now we know not to trust albatross13.

rob_c 4y ago

the inference being here that companies paying fines at this level are completely above board and trustworthy?

lern_too_spel 4y ago
That's a crazy inference. Nowhere did I imply completely above board. Doesn't rampantly falsify data, yes. Completely above board and trustworthy, no. There are vanishingly few organizations that are completely above board and trustworthy.
- rob_c 4y ago
  > Doesn't rampantly falsify data, yes. Completely above board and trustworthy, no. the 2 are equivalent given context, no?
  - lern_too_spel 4y ago
    No. They were fined for doing things like recommending off-label use for their drugs, and they provided no data to support that off-label use. That isn't falsifying data, but that isn't acting trustworthy either.
    - rob_c 4y ago
      Fined for being inscrupulous but are not unscrupulous... Ok I think I understand the faith.
      - lern_too_spel 4y ago
        You very clearly don't understand. I said they aren't completely trustworthy and I never implied they are.
        rob_c 4y ago
        Then why make the comparison if it's not needed. It is enough to state one thing without comparing it needlessly to another.
        lern_too_spel 4y ago
        You're the one who needlessly and wrongly conflated not falsifying data with being completely above board and trustworthy. I've been trying to get through to you this whole thread that the two are not equivalent.
        rob_c 4y ago
        you only need to state don't feed the troll instead of feeding the troll

chiefalchemist 4y ago

$10 billion - for any reason - is suspect. No one is fined for doing a great job.

albatross13 4y ago

> he thinks none of these lawsuits contained data falsification claims https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/pfizer https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/pfizer > he thinks these whistleblowers and the BMJ are liars https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635 https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635 Now we know not to trust lern_too_spel :)

lern_too_spel 4y ago
Point me to a specific fine for data falsification. Unlike you, I have made no false claims here.
- albatross13 4y ago
  https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/violation-tracker/or-pfizer-inc https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/violation-tracker... follow up source: https://www.doj.state.or.us/media-home/news-media-releases/oregon-department-of-justice-reaches-landmark-3-34-million-agreement-with-pfizer/ https://www.doj.state.or.us/media-home/news-media-releases/o... Quote: "Today’s settlement follows a two-year investigation by the Oregon Department of Justice into evidence that suggested Pfizer was using unreliable and unsubstantiated claims to promote Zyvox®, a relatively new and expensive antibiotic used for treating certain types of pneumonia and bacterial skin infections. Despite lacking evidence required by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to make such claims, Pfizer allegedly relied upon flawed clinical studies to substantiate assertions that Zyvox® was a superior to vancomycin, a comparatively inexpensive generic drug that holds the largest market share and has been available for more than 40 years. Pfizer’s sales representatives detailed and distributed thousands of copies of these faulty studies throughout Oregon to promote the sale of Zyvox®." Very long and pleasant way of saying "they lied". Not enough? How about Chantix: 1. https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/chantix-recall-2021-prompts-class-action-claims-pfizer-sold-misbranded-drug/ https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news... 2. https://www.youhavealawyer.com/chantix/ https://www.youhavealawyer.com/chantix/ Totaling almost 300 million in settlement payouts, they opted to do this AS A SETTLEMENT rather than let things drag out in court. Hmm... I wonder why. Couldn't be because they lied, hide, or downplayed information about Chantix's impact on people's mental health. This lands in their top 10 in terms of pay outs :) And again, I will direct you to: https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635 https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635 While they haven't been fined for it yet (because their new contracts make it almost impossible :^) ), we have pretty substantial evidence Pfizer lied about a myriad of data points collected at at least one facility in regards to their covid19 injection trials. But hey, at the end of the day I don't care what you believe beyond this post. You can defend the ultra corrupt big pharma company that bakes hundreds of millions in fines into its yearly operating budget. Makes no difference to me, I'm healthy :)