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> He’s just trying to make a quality comic book, no explicit message. That’s portrayed as “anti-woke” because not putting The Message front and center is a revo
by NoraCodes 4y ago
> He’s just trying to make a quality comic book, no explicit message. That’s portrayed as “anti-woke” because not putting The Message front and center is a revolutionary act, these days.
This is extremely interesting to me for a couple of reasons. The use of "these days" here makes me think that you consider comic books with a political message (or Message, as you spell it) are a new phenomenon. That's deeply ahistorical; the first superheroes - among them Superman, Wonder Woman, and Captain America - were created in the 1930s with pretty clear political agendas. Captain America's would, I hope, be obvious; he was created by American Jews who wanted to portray the fight against fascism, and specifically Nazism, as patriotic and righteous. Superman, too, was created by American Jews, and has periodically been portrayed as anti-Communist and generally anti-authoritarian throughout his entire existence as a character. Wonder Woman was created in the 1940s by a polyamorous triad of outspoken feminists, and her creators explicitly stated at the time:
> Not even girls want to be girls so long as our feminine archetype lacks force, strength, and power. Not wanting to be girls, they don't want to be tender, submissive, peace-loving as good women are. Women's strong qualities have become despised because of their weakness. The obvious remedy is to create a feminine character with all the strength of Superman plus all the allure of a good and beautiful woman.
Superhero comics without significant, explicit political messaging are rare in the history of the medium. Popular ones are even moreso.
- zmgsabst 4y ago> The use of "these days" here makes me think that you consider comic books with a political message (or Message, as you spell it) are a new phenomenon. You went on a whole rant based on a poor assumption. > Superhero comics without significant, explicit political messaging are rare in the history of the medium. Your entire post is based around poor assumptions: My comment was about the relative importance of political message and themes versus the quality of story telling — which you misconstrued as some kind of extremist statement about “no politics in comics!”
- dmix 4y agoRedlettermedia perfectly demonstrated how politics in modern media is often done so poorly in their Picard reviews. Compared to old Star Trek, which frequently explored current-day political themes that were subtle and cleverly told through stories where you learn they are bad via their actions and consequences (aka allegories). https://youtu.be/aQ2TQ_GRO4g?t=1528 https://youtu.be/aQ2TQ_GRO4g?t=1528 But whenever they came up in Picard it's always pointing at something and saying this BAD. Or that GOOD. It no longer assumes the reader/viewer is smart enough to make connections and draw their own conculsions. It has to be explicit to the point of bashing it over your head.
- Volundr 4y agoI'd recommend going back and rewatching STNG. I did a couple years ago and was shocked by how preachy and sacarine it was. Not at all the way my nostalgia remembered it. I was disappointed in the latest season of Picard, but I don't think calling the unsubtle preaching a departure from the classic series is a fair critism. It was always there.
- NoraCodes 4y agoWhen is the last time you watched The Original Series? Just to pick one example, Let That Be Your Last Battlefield (S3:E15) features an utterly ham-fisted metaphor for racism and slavery. It's also one of the best-reviewed episodes in the series, even today. Star Trek has been an explicitly and somewhat clumsily political show since the very beginning, and people like that about it.
- dmix 4y agoI watched the first season of TOS this year.
- tablespoon 4y ago> The use of "these days" here makes me think that you consider comic books with a political message (or Message, as you spell it) are a new phenomenon. That's deeply ahistorical; the first superheroes - among them Superman, Wonder Woman, and Captain America - were created in the 1930s with pretty clear political agendas. I think what might be different "these days" is the level of polarization, or at least how gaping and in-the-open it is. Perhaps back then the agenda wasn't as grating because it better reflected some consensus?
- dmix 4y agoSubtlety is dead. You have to put your political positions on your sleeve. Because everything is oh-so-important and urgent these days you don't have the time to gracefully weave important values it into the narrative. Or something. Just throw in some side character who are caricatures of current thing or have the main characters preach about it directly.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]