4 ms·

Breaking News: Facebook Causes Increase in Burglaries But in all seriousness, all forms of crime have just about monotonically decreased throughout all of huma

by dymk 4y ago

Breaking News: Facebook Causes Increase in Burglaries But in all seriousness, all forms of crime have just about monotonically decreased throughout all of human development. To say that "modern society" has an increasing problem with burglaries due to a "lack of self respect", there's no evidence it's true, and there is evidence to the contrary. Before you point out the bump in some crime types in recent years, let me remind you that recent years have not been typical, nor easy on our generally monotonically-improving social safety nets. Compare burglary rates in America from 1980, 1990, 2000, 2010. Lower, lower lower. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Property_Crime_Rates_in_the_United_States.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#/me...

tristor 4y ago
To not put too fine of a point on it, while crime is decreasing in aggregate over time, it's also spreading into areas/communities where it historically has been lower. It's still generally true that if you avoid going into the bad parts of town or engaging in social relationships with known criminals you are unlikely to be a victim of crime generally, however upper class neighborhoods and quiet suburbs are now seeing an increase in property crime and general anti-social behaviors that are occurring due to shifts in social mores and a decrease in respect that are happening within society overall. What I'm referring to is far more subtle than some direct link between social media and these behaviors, but even in the cases of direct links such things exist... for instance consider TikTok trends like "devious licks"[1] which had students vandalizing and stealing from schools on video, including in upper class neighborhoods and at good schools. I am /very/ well aware of the overall trend of crime decreasing in aggregate. However, I am also aware of the shift I'm noting above, and I'm aware that some crimes are now simply under/un-reported. Property crimes are definitely on the rise /in aggregate/ in some areas of the US, and can be most directly linked to shifts in enforcement. Car-break ins and bike thefts in particular in cities like San Francisco are associated strongly to the refusal of the law enforcement in the area to actually enforce the law. We have a large number of social ills, and aggregate decreases in mental health, happening in the West, and I see this as being in the large linked to lack of self-respect and self-esteem. People with self-respect and self-esteem don't go and hurt others and destroy things, they create and produce. Lack of self-esteem is a significant driver for depression, which seems to be on the rise, along with many other related issues. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devious_lick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devious_lick
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  >Car-break ins and bike thefts in particular in cities like San Francisco are associated strongly to the refusal of the law enforcement in the area to actually enforce the law. Police in poor cities have never had enough enforcement resources to do anything other than write a report for petty crime yet you don't see the nearly amount of videos of brazen "petty crime in broad daylight while witnesses film" coming out of Detroit or Trenton like you do the richer cities. The problem is largely cultural and it largely begins and ends with the demographics who drive things like local police policy.
  - tristor 4y ago
    You're correct in your first paragraph and probably a quarter correct in your second paragraph. Just to be a bit more deliberate: poor communities have experienced high rates of crime throughout human history, it's a newly recurring phenomenon that high rates of crime are now happening in communities which are not poor, and it's a problematic sign for society. Without trying to crack open the entirety of human psychology and sociology in a comment on HN, a lot of people primarily gather wealth to build safety for their family, the entire reason that they become wealthier is to insulate themselves from the criminality that is common in poorer parts of their city/country/world. The fact that relative wealth is no longer as insulative as it once was is indicative of a wider ranging issue than poverty driving crime, and results in subtle shifts and cracks forming in society. There are absolutely cultural drivers behind crime, as well as demographic drivers, and I am positing that a big piece of what's causing criminal culture to spread and shift is social media acting as a communications platform to spread a different set of social mores and standards than those that have historically enforced cohesion within larger society and reduced criminality in wealthier areas. Again, case in point, children of wealthy families in posh schools engaging in vandalize and theft of school property for social media points. Social media is nothing if not a cultural force that creates a new demographic that cuts across other lines, their user-base.
    - yamazakiwi 4y ago
      Why is it an issue that wealth is not as insulative as it once was against crime? What about those who want wealth but can't acquire it but also do good in a community to prevent crime? What if we were forced to make communal change instead of buying our way out? Children across all spectrums of wealth have engaged in vandalization or theft for the entirety of humanity, whether for social media points or other variations of clout.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> But in all seriousness, all forms of crime have just about monotonically decreased throughout all of human development. No, they haven't. Most of them may have decreased, but it hasn't been even approximately monotonic. > Compare burglary rates in America from 1980, 1990, 2000, 2010 I like that you use a a few decades of decline from the well-known peak of a long surge as your proof of a monotonic decline over the entire history of human development.

by dymk 4y ago

tristor 4y ago

To not put too fine of a point on it, while crime is decreasing in aggregate over time, it's also spreading into areas/communities where it historically has been lower. It's still generally true that if you avoid going into the bad parts of town or engaging in social relationships with known criminals you are unlikely to be a victim of crime generally, however upper class neighborhoods and quiet suburbs are now seeing an increase in property crime and general anti-social behaviors that are occurring due to shifts in social mores and a decrease in respect that are happening within society overall. What I'm referring to is far more subtle than some direct link between social media and these behaviors, but even in the cases of direct links such things exist... for instance consider TikTok trends like "devious licks"[1] which had students vandalizing and stealing from schools on video, including in upper class neighborhoods and at good schools. I am /very/ well aware of the overall trend of crime decreasing in aggregate. However, I am also aware of the shift I'm noting above, and I'm aware that some crimes are now simply under/un-reported. Property crimes are definitely on the rise /in aggregate/ in some areas of the US, and can be most directly linked to shifts in enforcement. Car-break ins and bike thefts in particular in cities like San Francisco are associated strongly to the refusal of the law enforcement in the area to actually enforce the law. We have a large number of social ills, and aggregate decreases in mental health, happening in the West, and I see this as being in the large linked to lack of self-respect and self-esteem. People with self-respect and self-esteem don't go and hurt others and destroy things, they create and produce. Lack of self-esteem is a significant driver for depression, which seems to be on the rise, along with many other related issues. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devious_lick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devious_lick

throwaway0a5e 4y ago
>Car-break ins and bike thefts in particular in cities like San Francisco are associated strongly to the refusal of the law enforcement in the area to actually enforce the law. Police in poor cities have never had enough enforcement resources to do anything other than write a report for petty crime yet you don't see the nearly amount of videos of brazen "petty crime in broad daylight while witnesses film" coming out of Detroit or Trenton like you do the richer cities. The problem is largely cultural and it largely begins and ends with the demographics who drive things like local police policy.
- tristor 4y ago
  You're correct in your first paragraph and probably a quarter correct in your second paragraph. Just to be a bit more deliberate: poor communities have experienced high rates of crime throughout human history, it's a newly recurring phenomenon that high rates of crime are now happening in communities which are not poor, and it's a problematic sign for society. Without trying to crack open the entirety of human psychology and sociology in a comment on HN, a lot of people primarily gather wealth to build safety for their family, the entire reason that they become wealthier is to insulate themselves from the criminality that is common in poorer parts of their city/country/world. The fact that relative wealth is no longer as insulative as it once was is indicative of a wider ranging issue than poverty driving crime, and results in subtle shifts and cracks forming in society. There are absolutely cultural drivers behind crime, as well as demographic drivers, and I am positing that a big piece of what's causing criminal culture to spread and shift is social media acting as a communications platform to spread a different set of social mores and standards than those that have historically enforced cohesion within larger society and reduced criminality in wealthier areas. Again, case in point, children of wealthy families in posh schools engaging in vandalize and theft of school property for social media points. Social media is nothing if not a cultural force that creates a new demographic that cuts across other lines, their user-base.
  - yamazakiwi 4y ago
    Why is it an issue that wealth is not as insulative as it once was against crime? What about those who want wealth but can't acquire it but also do good in a community to prevent crime? What if we were forced to make communal change instead of buying our way out? Children across all spectrums of wealth have engaged in vandalization or theft for the entirety of humanity, whether for social media points or other variations of clout.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> But in all seriousness, all forms of crime have just about monotonically decreased throughout all of human development. No, they haven't. Most of them may have decreased, but it hasn't been even approximately monotonic. > Compare burglary rates in America from 1980, 1990, 2000, 2010 I like that you use a a few decades of decline from the well-known peak of a long surge as your proof of a monotonic decline over the entire history of human development.