> If there's not an ironclad, undeniable path between the scientific method and optimal human values, then the only way to arrive at a culture where science is

> If there's not an ironclad, undeniable path between the scientific method and optimal human values, then the only way to arrive at a culture where science is the shared value and ideology is coercion. Let's leave the scientific method aside for now and focus on persuasive arguments as the way to change behavior (scientific method is persuasive but is not necessarily the only method to persuade someone ethically). > I see no way to scientifically conclude almost anything about correct personal values. Well the way I would attempt to persuade someone is by teaching them about the tragedy of the commons, i.e. when the security of the many is threatened by the incentives afforded to the individual, usually we call this pollution or corruption but I'll call it the tragedy of the commons. Now, the persuasive argument would be that you would rather be persuaded than coerced (or that is my assumption here) but if you were to undermine the security of the whole to enrich yourself then it follows that if the whole is properly coordinated then they would balance out your gains by refusing to work with you, thereby eliminating the advantage you achieved with your actions and if you are made aware of this preemptively then your calculations change and you realize that the only way for you to gain an advantage is to contribute to the commons. There are some assumptions in there and the argument is not completely persuasive as I delivered it here but I am trying to make a scientific experiment of sorts by building a system on these principles and seeing if the resulting economics can become more legitimate than the current system without being founded on coercion (i.e. whether people will willingly move to this new economic system because they perceive their interests better aligned with this method of assessment) ... you can check out datalisp.is, I was recently on the street and I am still flat broke (because I refuse to go against my morals - all part of the experiment ;) so this project has been crawling along, now my situation is on an upswing so I am hoping to make a lot of progress in the coming months.