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I'm always amazed at how Noisebridge seems to survive. It's grimy, chaotic and in an expensive city. But it always survives somehow.

pkdpic 4y ago
That's a great point, I wonder what their secret sauce is...
- rexreed 4y ago
  Noisebridge is a registered non-profit California corporation, with IRS 501 charitable status. The secret sauce for non-profitable Makerspaces and such is to not be profitable, and structure as a charity, because that's what it most likely is. Noisebridge is volunteer-led, so no one is on salary. Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noisebridge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noisebridge Running a hackerspace for profit is most likely a dead-end.
  - ValentineC 4y ago
    > The secret sauce for non-profitable Makerspaces and such is to not be profitable, and structure as a charity, because that's what it most likely is. Noisebridge is volunteer-led, so no one is on salary. It might work in the US, where it's possible that donations to charities get huge tax breaks, but I don't think it matters as much in other parts of the world. One problem with being volunteer-led is that if your core is allowed to weaken, or if there aren't policies in place to "manage" or exclude bad members of the community, one or two bad eggs could be enough to cause people to get tired of their antics and quit (which, as I've read, is a problem that Noisebridge has time and again). I think this post [1] sums it up quite well: > Ask anybody who served on the board of our nonprofit hackerspace HeatSync Labs over the past 2 years, and they'll tell you they spent approaching 0% of their time envisioning and executing on what kind of awesome nonprofit we should be and instead spent all of their time babysitting and psychoanalyzing a CONSTANT (albeit minority) population of angry members. > Why are they so angry at this person, their project, or the way they they were spoken to? Have they tried talking to them? Have they tried not yelling at them? Have they offered to help? Were they broken up with recently? Are they having problems at work? Volunteer-led ones would work better if more of them had a constantly-renewing team of 2-3 volunteers specifically trained in community management and dispute mediation, but unfortunately most spaces might not have such privilege. Source: I'm involved in one such struggling non-for-profit hackerspace myself. :) [1] https://citizengadget.com/toxicity-inclusivity-and-community-size/ https://citizengadget.com/toxicity-inclusivity-and-community...
  - stjohnswarts 4y ago
    Maybe I'm just plain ignorant but I thought charitable organizations wrote off salaries on their taxes (as long as they are reasonable for the position). Churches do it all the time. Most "professional" preachers get paid and often get their houses and other expenses paid by the church. I'm not saying it's lucrative but it doesn't keep them from losing charitable status.
    - rexreed 4y ago
      You still have to have money to pay people. Having volunteers instead of employees means you don't need to pay people. Not having to pay people means you don't need to raise as much money. It's not about paying taxes on the salaries, it's about affording the salaries in the first place.
qbasic_forever 4y ago
I don't know anything about their situation but if they have rent control then that could be a good reason why they haven't been pushed out. NYC in the 70s was pretty famous for giving artists a great deal on rent control lofts and such since they had all kinds of derelict buildings after industry left.
- karmicthreat 4y ago
  Only residences really have rent control. Noisebridge has been forced out multiple times and had to move. But usually they end up moving to a better/larger space.

pkdpic 4y ago

That's a great point, I wonder what their secret sauce is...

rexreed 4y ago
Noisebridge is a registered non-profit California corporation, with IRS 501 charitable status. The secret sauce for non-profitable Makerspaces and such is to not be profitable, and structure as a charity, because that's what it most likely is. Noisebridge is volunteer-led, so no one is on salary. Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noisebridge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noisebridge Running a hackerspace for profit is most likely a dead-end.
- ValentineC 4y ago
  > The secret sauce for non-profitable Makerspaces and such is to not be profitable, and structure as a charity, because that's what it most likely is. Noisebridge is volunteer-led, so no one is on salary. It might work in the US, where it's possible that donations to charities get huge tax breaks, but I don't think it matters as much in other parts of the world. One problem with being volunteer-led is that if your core is allowed to weaken, or if there aren't policies in place to "manage" or exclude bad members of the community, one or two bad eggs could be enough to cause people to get tired of their antics and quit (which, as I've read, is a problem that Noisebridge has time and again). I think this post [1] sums it up quite well: > Ask anybody who served on the board of our nonprofit hackerspace HeatSync Labs over the past 2 years, and they'll tell you they spent approaching 0% of their time envisioning and executing on what kind of awesome nonprofit we should be and instead spent all of their time babysitting and psychoanalyzing a CONSTANT (albeit minority) population of angry members. > Why are they so angry at this person, their project, or the way they they were spoken to? Have they tried talking to them? Have they tried not yelling at them? Have they offered to help? Were they broken up with recently? Are they having problems at work? Volunteer-led ones would work better if more of them had a constantly-renewing team of 2-3 volunteers specifically trained in community management and dispute mediation, but unfortunately most spaces might not have such privilege. Source: I'm involved in one such struggling non-for-profit hackerspace myself. :) [1] https://citizengadget.com/toxicity-inclusivity-and-community-size/ https://citizengadget.com/toxicity-inclusivity-and-community...
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  Maybe I'm just plain ignorant but I thought charitable organizations wrote off salaries on their taxes (as long as they are reasonable for the position). Churches do it all the time. Most "professional" preachers get paid and often get their houses and other expenses paid by the church. I'm not saying it's lucrative but it doesn't keep them from losing charitable status.
  - rexreed 4y ago
    You still have to have money to pay people. Having volunteers instead of employees means you don't need to pay people. Not having to pay people means you don't need to raise as much money. It's not about paying taxes on the salaries, it's about affording the salaries in the first place.

qbasic_forever 4y ago

I don't know anything about their situation but if they have rent control then that could be a good reason why they haven't been pushed out. NYC in the 70s was pretty famous for giving artists a great deal on rent control lofts and such since they had all kinds of derelict buildings after industry left.

karmicthreat 4y ago
Only residences really have rent control. Noisebridge has been forced out multiple times and had to move. But usually they end up moving to a better/larger space.