4 ms·

Because the CIA hires smart people who can read and write and think critically and is not so much the bogeyman (though definitely with its problematic legacy) i

Because the CIA hires smart people who can read and write and think critically and is not so much the bogeyman (though definitely with its problematic legacy) it’s made out to be?

StanislavPetrov 4y ago
Tens of millions of people around the world would disagree if they hadn't been killed by CIA operations.
- Arnt 4y ago
  Tens of millions. How do you add that up?
  - FrenchDevRemote 4y ago
    Latin America coups, crack epidemic, unjustified wars.
    - throwaway654329 4y ago
      The embargo against Cuba, partially relaxed under Obama, reinstated intensely under Trump, maintained today by Biden. Think of the children? Nah… America, fuck yeah!
    - Arnt 4y ago
      I suppose if you take the viewpoint that Pinochet and those other latins had no personal agency, had no choice, then you can blame all the deaths on the CIA. But even if you do that, "tens of millions" is really big.
      - throwawaylinux 4y ago
        What was their involvement in the Iraq war? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries Estimates are anywhere up to about a million people dead there before even accounting for the rise of ISIS it enabled. And the Gulf War, and Iran-Iraq wars before that. How about the destruction of Syria and Libya? The CIA's fingerprints were all over those. The Yemen war deaths are approaching a half million, surprise surprise the CIA have been "involved" there too. Now probably the poor CIA is an unfortunate victim of everybody else with personal agency, and the fact war follows them around like a horseman of the apocalypse is simply because they've been hard at work making the world a better place. But I don't know, call me a conspiracy nutter but now and again I get the faint inkling of doubt.
        Arnt 4y ago
        IIRC, the CIA's involvement in the Iraq war was to provide some remarkably misinformed reports and torture some people for no benefit to anyone. With respect to Iraq, the CIA was a feeble and risk-averse organisation, almost exactly the opposite of the kind of organisation that could kill tens of millions of people.
        throwawaylinux 4y ago
        The CIA seem to have been a central player in the development of the propaganda that said Iraq was attempting to obtain nuclear weapons, which was used as the basis for the public justification for the war in Iraq, if that's what you mean by providing misinformed reports. And they likely also tortured people and such acts which would have provided plenty of hatred to help push people toward terrorist groups such as ISIS after the fall of Iraq. > almost exactly the opposite of the kind of organisation that could kill tens of millions of people. It doesn't sound like that to me.
        Arnt 4y ago
        Tens of millions of people in only about 27000 days is approximately 700-4000 people per day as a long-term average (if tens means 29-99). Don't you think killing a thousand people per day and getting away with it requires considerable competence? Thirty thousand in a month, and not even one arrest, month after month after month? More competence than writing wildly wrong reports about Saddam Hussein's weaponry, and much more than I'm willing to believe about the CIA. Remember, this is an organisation that used to respond to agents being uncovered by sending in a new agent, who would then use the same car as the agent whose cover was blown.
        throwawaylinux 4y ago
        Their operations that caused wars have likely been responsible for millions of deaths.
  - StanislavPetrov 4y ago
    Tens of millions is a conservative estimate. You could start with the overthrow of the Iranian government in 1953 and go from there. The Congo, Indonesia, virtually every country in Central and South America, up to the ongoing operations in Syria and beyond. If you want to start your discovery I suggest reading two meticulously sourced books, which will open your eyes and give you further avenues for research whether or not you agree with the perspective of the authors: The Jakarta Method: Washington's Anticommunist Crusade and the Mass Murder Program that Shaped Our World The Devil's Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America's Secret Government

Because the CIA hires smart people who can read and write and think critically and is not so much the bogeyman (though definitely with its problematic legacy) it’s made out to be?

StanislavPetrov 4y ago

Tens of millions of people around the world would disagree if they hadn't been killed by CIA operations.

Arnt 4y ago
Tens of millions. How do you add that up?
- FrenchDevRemote 4y ago
  Latin America coups, crack epidemic, unjustified wars.
  - throwaway654329 4y ago
    The embargo against Cuba, partially relaxed under Obama, reinstated intensely under Trump, maintained today by Biden. Think of the children? Nah… America, fuck yeah!
  - Arnt 4y ago
    I suppose if you take the viewpoint that Pinochet and those other latins had no personal agency, had no choice, then you can blame all the deaths on the CIA. But even if you do that, "tens of millions" is really big.
    - throwawaylinux 4y ago
      What was their involvement in the Iraq war? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries Estimates are anywhere up to about a million people dead there before even accounting for the rise of ISIS it enabled. And the Gulf War, and Iran-Iraq wars before that. How about the destruction of Syria and Libya? The CIA's fingerprints were all over those. The Yemen war deaths are approaching a half million, surprise surprise the CIA have been "involved" there too. Now probably the poor CIA is an unfortunate victim of everybody else with personal agency, and the fact war follows them around like a horseman of the apocalypse is simply because they've been hard at work making the world a better place. But I don't know, call me a conspiracy nutter but now and again I get the faint inkling of doubt.
      - Arnt 4y ago
        IIRC, the CIA's involvement in the Iraq war was to provide some remarkably misinformed reports and torture some people for no benefit to anyone. With respect to Iraq, the CIA was a feeble and risk-averse organisation, almost exactly the opposite of the kind of organisation that could kill tens of millions of people.
        throwawaylinux 4y ago
        The CIA seem to have been a central player in the development of the propaganda that said Iraq was attempting to obtain nuclear weapons, which was used as the basis for the public justification for the war in Iraq, if that's what you mean by providing misinformed reports. And they likely also tortured people and such acts which would have provided plenty of hatred to help push people toward terrorist groups such as ISIS after the fall of Iraq. > almost exactly the opposite of the kind of organisation that could kill tens of millions of people. It doesn't sound like that to me.
        Arnt 4y ago
        Tens of millions of people in only about 27000 days is approximately 700-4000 people per day as a long-term average (if tens means 29-99). Don't you think killing a thousand people per day and getting away with it requires considerable competence? Thirty thousand in a month, and not even one arrest, month after month after month? More competence than writing wildly wrong reports about Saddam Hussein's weaponry, and much more than I'm willing to believe about the CIA. Remember, this is an organisation that used to respond to agents being uncovered by sending in a new agent, who would then use the same car as the agent whose cover was blown.
        throwawaylinux 4y ago
        Their operations that caused wars have likely been responsible for millions of deaths.
- StanislavPetrov 4y ago
  Tens of millions is a conservative estimate. You could start with the overthrow of the Iranian government in 1953 and go from there. The Congo, Indonesia, virtually every country in Central and South America, up to the ongoing operations in Syria and beyond. If you want to start your discovery I suggest reading two meticulously sourced books, which will open your eyes and give you further avenues for research whether or not you agree with the perspective of the authors: The Jakarta Method: Washington's Anticommunist Crusade and the Mass Murder Program that Shaped Our World The Devil's Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America's Secret Government