6 ms·

> the bottom line (to me) is that Facebook just doesn't respect its users or care about their needs. Wouldn't a consequence of this be that Facebook would be l

> the bottom line (to me) is that Facebook just doesn't respect its users or care about their needs. Wouldn't a consequence of this be that Facebook would be losing users in drovers? And yet the data seem to disagree. This is a type of take that feels very "inside baseball" and fueled more by the feelings of its proponents than any kind of empiricism.

maxfurman 4y ago
They just posted their first net user loss - so maybe not "in droves" but their username is certainly declining and will continue to do so without drastic change
- next_xibalba 4y ago
  Where are you getting this information? AFAIK, 2Q22 earnings (and metrics) are released tomorrow. The whispers I've heard are that any loss of M/DAU is contained to Europe and is caused by Russia going offline.
  - jahewson 4y ago
    Given that they lost users in the final quarter of 2021 that’s a remarkable time travel machine your whisperers seem to have invented.
  - aahortwwy 4y ago
    > Social media giant Facebook has seen its daily active users (DAUs) drop for the first time in its 18-year history. > Facebook's owner Meta Platforms says DAUs fell to 1.929bn in the three months to the end of December [2021], compared to 1.930bn in the previous quarter. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60238565 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60238565
  - ARandomerDude 4y ago
    Ah yes, the familiar "everything is Putin's fault" refrain. He's a bad guy and invading Ukraine is horrible, all the usual caveats. But Putin under every rock and behind every bush being responsible for every toothache and hangnail is getting old.
    - threeseed 4y ago
      Russia bans Facebook and Instagram under ‘extremism’ law: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/21/russia-bans-facebook-and-instagram-under-extremism-law https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/21/russia-bans-fa...
    - permo-w 4y ago
      facebook losing users is a bad thing?
- kazinator 4y ago
  Even if so, the point here needs more information: are they going to a different platform which respects them and cares about their needs? Or just some different-but-same thing?
- threeseed 4y ago
  > but their username is certainly declining You can't make any claims about Facebook's position based on a single quarter's result. Especially given we are in the most tumultuous period in the last few decades.
  - Beldin 4y ago
    The 80s covered the end of the cold war, the fall of the Berlin Wall and the fall of the Iron curtain, so surely you're not including that decade. The 90s covered the fall and breakup of one of two world powers, and had a gulf war and the breakup/war in Yugoslavia, so that's similarly rules out. The 00s covered terrorist attacks on the Twin Towers, the Pentagon, and London, changing air travel worldwide, starting wars and inspiring more terrorism (Madrid, Mumbay). Oh, and a financial meltdown compared to the Great Depression. So that's probably also not in your "last few decades". That leaves the 2010s, which cover (amongst others) the start of the corona pandemic. I guess you're including that event in your "recent decades". Plenty omitted from the above, such as famines and wars in Africa, news from Latin-America, "where's my vote" in Iran, the Arab Spring, Rohinga & Myanmar, ...; in short: we've been in a couple of tumultuous decades for a while now.
kazinator 4y ago
Users who believe they can get something out of Facebook that speaks to their vanities or insecurities will ignore being disrespected or not cared about by the platform. Moreover, many of those users will accept the terms because their use of the platform is free. Some users might be consciously aware of the fact that the disrespect and lack of caring is mutual, and accept it that way. "Facebook doesn't respect me or my needs, but I likewise don't respect Facebook or care about its needs. so it's kind of fair. It's free, and I think I'm getting more out of it than it's getting out of me. Plus almost everyone I know is on there, so ..."
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- CAPSLOCKSSTUCK 4y ago
  This.
batiudrami 4y ago
It depends how you measure it, right? I now only use Facebook for events and that is because there is nothing else that competes. Everything else in the Facebook app is awful, and even events is increasingly user-hostile. I recently deleted instagram (an app I actually used to really like!). But I still count as a daily active user in their reporting. I wonder what their internal engagement metrics look like. I bet Facebook’s feed engagement (which is their primary ad display) on the Facebook app is way down, because the feed sucks. Instagram risks doing the same with this frenzied push for engagement.
- saurik 4y ago
  > I now only use Facebook for events and that is because there is nothing else that competes. This is a big reason I still use Facebook, and am extremely unhappy that they keep removing features :(. I used to be able to browse events easily for random dates in random locations on my phone, a feature that now only seems to exist on desktop... but, even then, it doesn't seem to support not having a search term :/. When you combine that with fewer and fewer events being on it due to fewer and fewer people being in the target market of using it it is in a death spiral.
AOsborn 4y ago
That's a fair point. I think another perspective is that this is a case of businesses chasing (or being forced to chase) endless 'growth'. Facebook is likely optimising to increase engagement and revenue. But in my humble opinion the Facebook of the early 2000s was close to perfect in terms of use. Obviously leaving the product the same wasn't going to drive that revenue and make the careers of all the employees. I wish Facebook remained as the platform I could jump on a couple of times a week to see what distant friends and my Grandma was up to. For a while they somehow managed to have just the right balance where it seemed like everyone on the planet would eventually sign up. It felt like this was a huge step forward in how the world communicated. Logging onto Facebook in 2022 is a cesspit of flashy videos and clickbait posts. What a disappointment.
- prox 4y ago
  For me Facebook is a bit like ancient Discord. A few companies and hobby groups are on there which I follow.
- mst 4y ago
  I continue to think that the difference in taxation between capital gains and dividends was a market distorting error. "Not growing noticeably but being steadily profitable" is IMO both underrated and overtaxed.
- philjohn 4y ago
  Facebook is still that for me - I don't follow groups and my feed is 99% far flung friends posts about their lives - we've also moved past the "look, everything in my life is perfect!" phase and people are more honest.
  - simongray 4y ago
    I removed half of my friends and almost all of my information in a digital konmari exercise last year and Facebook is still like 1/3 ads, 1/3 videos I don't care about (and never asked for), and 1/3 actual posts or comments made by my "friends". It's an adridden wasteland.
- 4y ago
petesergeant 4y ago
> Wouldn't a consequence of this be that Facebook would be losing users in droves? Do we know that they aren't? Certainly my Facebook usage has dramatically changed since 10 years ago, and I would say that's true of the majority of my network too. I still use Messenger and I still log in about once a week or so, so I imagine I still count towards Monthly Average Users, but still: there was a time in my life 10-15 years ago where my entire social life was mediated through Facebook specifically, and now if it disappeared tomorrow, I'd barely notice other than Messenger. All my social media "attention" is on Instagram and Twitter now.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

maxfurman 4y ago

They just posted their first net user loss - so maybe not "in droves" but their username is certainly declining and will continue to do so without drastic change

next_xibalba 4y ago
Where are you getting this information? AFAIK, 2Q22 earnings (and metrics) are released tomorrow. The whispers I've heard are that any loss of M/DAU is contained to Europe and is caused by Russia going offline.
- jahewson 4y ago
  Given that they lost users in the final quarter of 2021 that’s a remarkable time travel machine your whisperers seem to have invented.
- aahortwwy 4y ago
  > Social media giant Facebook has seen its daily active users (DAUs) drop for the first time in its 18-year history. > Facebook's owner Meta Platforms says DAUs fell to 1.929bn in the three months to the end of December [2021], compared to 1.930bn in the previous quarter. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60238565 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60238565
- ARandomerDude 4y ago
  Ah yes, the familiar "everything is Putin's fault" refrain. He's a bad guy and invading Ukraine is horrible, all the usual caveats. But Putin under every rock and behind every bush being responsible for every toothache and hangnail is getting old.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    Russia bans Facebook and Instagram under ‘extremism’ law: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/21/russia-bans-facebook-and-instagram-under-extremism-law https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/21/russia-bans-fa...
  - permo-w 4y ago
    facebook losing users is a bad thing?
kazinator 4y ago
Even if so, the point here needs more information: are they going to a different platform which respects them and cares about their needs? Or just some different-but-same thing?
threeseed 4y ago
> but their username is certainly declining You can't make any claims about Facebook's position based on a single quarter's result. Especially given we are in the most tumultuous period in the last few decades.
- Beldin 4y ago
  The 80s covered the end of the cold war, the fall of the Berlin Wall and the fall of the Iron curtain, so surely you're not including that decade. The 90s covered the fall and breakup of one of two world powers, and had a gulf war and the breakup/war in Yugoslavia, so that's similarly rules out. The 00s covered terrorist attacks on the Twin Towers, the Pentagon, and London, changing air travel worldwide, starting wars and inspiring more terrorism (Madrid, Mumbay). Oh, and a financial meltdown compared to the Great Depression. So that's probably also not in your "last few decades". That leaves the 2010s, which cover (amongst others) the start of the corona pandemic. I guess you're including that event in your "recent decades". Plenty omitted from the above, such as famines and wars in Africa, news from Latin-America, "where's my vote" in Iran, the Arab Spring, Rohinga & Myanmar, ...; in short: we've been in a couple of tumultuous decades for a while now.

kazinator 4y ago

Users who believe they can get something out of Facebook that speaks to their vanities or insecurities will ignore being disrespected or not cared about by the platform. Moreover, many of those users will accept the terms because their use of the platform is free. Some users might be consciously aware of the fact that the disrespect and lack of caring is mutual, and accept it that way. "Facebook doesn't respect me or my needs, but I likewise don't respect Facebook or care about its needs. so it's kind of fair. It's free, and I think I'm getting more out of it than it's getting out of me. Plus almost everyone I know is on there, so ..."

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
CAPSLOCKSSTUCK 4y ago
This.

batiudrami 4y ago

It depends how you measure it, right? I now only use Facebook for events and that is because there is nothing else that competes. Everything else in the Facebook app is awful, and even events is increasingly user-hostile. I recently deleted instagram (an app I actually used to really like!). But I still count as a daily active user in their reporting. I wonder what their internal engagement metrics look like. I bet Facebook’s feed engagement (which is their primary ad display) on the Facebook app is way down, because the feed sucks. Instagram risks doing the same with this frenzied push for engagement.

saurik 4y ago
> I now only use Facebook for events and that is because there is nothing else that competes. This is a big reason I still use Facebook, and am extremely unhappy that they keep removing features :(. I used to be able to browse events easily for random dates in random locations on my phone, a feature that now only seems to exist on desktop... but, even then, it doesn't seem to support not having a search term :/. When you combine that with fewer and fewer events being on it due to fewer and fewer people being in the target market of using it it is in a death spiral.

AOsborn 4y ago

That's a fair point. I think another perspective is that this is a case of businesses chasing (or being forced to chase) endless 'growth'. Facebook is likely optimising to increase engagement and revenue. But in my humble opinion the Facebook of the early 2000s was close to perfect in terms of use. Obviously leaving the product the same wasn't going to drive that revenue and make the careers of all the employees. I wish Facebook remained as the platform I could jump on a couple of times a week to see what distant friends and my Grandma was up to. For a while they somehow managed to have just the right balance where it seemed like everyone on the planet would eventually sign up. It felt like this was a huge step forward in how the world communicated. Logging onto Facebook in 2022 is a cesspit of flashy videos and clickbait posts. What a disappointment.

prox 4y ago
For me Facebook is a bit like ancient Discord. A few companies and hobby groups are on there which I follow.
mst 4y ago
I continue to think that the difference in taxation between capital gains and dividends was a market distorting error. "Not growing noticeably but being steadily profitable" is IMO both underrated and overtaxed.
philjohn 4y ago
Facebook is still that for me - I don't follow groups and my feed is 99% far flung friends posts about their lives - we've also moved past the "look, everything in my life is perfect!" phase and people are more honest.
- simongray 4y ago
  I removed half of my friends and almost all of my information in a digital konmari exercise last year and Facebook is still like 1/3 ads, 1/3 videos I don't care about (and never asked for), and 1/3 actual posts or comments made by my "friends". It's an adridden wasteland.
4y ago

petesergeant 4y ago

> Wouldn't a consequence of this be that Facebook would be losing users in droves? Do we know that they aren't? Certainly my Facebook usage has dramatically changed since 10 years ago, and I would say that's true of the majority of my network too. I still use Messenger and I still log in about once a week or so, so I imagine I still count towards Monthly Average Users, but still: there was a time in my life 10-15 years ago where my entire social life was mediated through Facebook specifically, and now if it disappeared tomorrow, I'd barely notice other than Messenger. All my social media "attention" is on Instagram and Twitter now.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]