4 ms·

That’s not how anything in the consumer world works. If you want guaranteed volume and throughput, sign a contract for it.

by teej 4y ago

lazide 4y ago
And yet, that’s not how data center bandwidth is typically sold. Weird huh? It’s total bait and switch, and probably false advertising/fraud.
- foobiekr 4y ago
  A lot of colo and DC bandwidth is sold as port speed for the connection with no guarantees at all as to sustained bitrate to any other port including egress.
  - lazide 4y ago
    Which is very different than caps and throttles!
  - romwell 4y ago
    Yeah, and that's better than lying about the guarantees.
krn 4y ago
Exactly. In my country, an "Unlimited 4G LTE" data plan costs 12 EUR. But without any "fair usage" policy that would be simply impossible. Nobody would expect to use tens of TBs per month without ever being contacted or heavily throttled.
- mort96 4y ago
  Why would it be a bad thing for it to be illegal to lie? Just don't call the plan "unlimited", and have clearly stated limits. Obviously that's not as good marketing. Products usually look better if you lie about them to make them look better. But lying in marketing shouldn't be legal. And this shouldn't be controversial.
  - krn 4y ago
    > Why would it be a bad thing for it to be illegal to lie? Just don't call the plan "unlimited", and have clearly stated limits. Maybe because the limits are not fixed and completely depend on the spending of the customer? If a customer is among the top 1% of the biggest users and – at the same time – among the top 1% of the smallest spenders, that simply raises the costs of the service for everyone else. There are only three choices here: a) get rid of the customer; b) make them pay more, or c) raise the prices of unlimited plans for everyone.
    - mort96 4y ago
      What does this have to do with anything? If the user if paying for a service, they should be getting that service. If the operator is offering a service which they can't afford to offer, that's not the user's problem.
      - krn 4y ago
        A private operator can choose to stop providing any service to any customer at any time. Especially, if it finds it to be economically unsustainable for their business. For instance, OVH has previously terminated accounts of paying customers simply because it didn't want to do any business with people from an occupied territory[1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29680251 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29680251
        mort96 4y ago
        But what does that have to do with anything? Why can't operators just not lie to their customers? Just don't call the plan "unlimited". Have well-defined limits. They don't have to be hard limits, they can be a gradual speed reduction after some amount of data per month. Just don't lie. I don't understand why you think this is a difficult concept.
        krn 4y ago
        Again, the limits are not fixed, and therefore cannot be clearly defined. If a customer is spending $5K / month on dedicated servers, Hetzner might earn enough from renting hardware to cover truly unlimited usage of bandwidth. If a customer is spending only $50 / month, that's a completely different case. Such a customer might simply be not valuable enough to keep.
- randunel 4y ago
  I've got unlimited 4G/LTE/5G for €2/mo with reduced bandwidth after 55GB but still unlimited, and true unlimited for €5/mo without any bandwidth restrictions. I'm proxying traffic through mobile proxies and expect nothing less than unlimited. What herzer do amounts to false advertising when compared to the mobile traffic examples.
  - gzer0 4y ago
    Where are you getting these prices?
  - kytazo 4y ago
    yes please share any info possible, this will help a lot
- romwell 4y ago
  Well that's nonsense. Words have meanings for a reason. The meaning of the word "unlimited" is not, in fact, "limited, but we won't tell you what the limit is — you'll get to find it out the hard way". Whatever the terms of the "fair usage" policy are, that's what should be in the description. Otherwise, is plain old lying and misreading — which for some reason you are OK with.
encryptluks2 4y ago
Imagine going to a unlimited buffet restaurant per customer and paying an extra $15 and then being told after it is capped at one plate from the salad bar.
- colejohnson66 4y ago
  Except buffets do do that. Not that extreme, but if you go into a one and continue to eat for multiple hours, you’ll be kicked out despite having “unlimited food”.
  - hansvm 4y ago
    And when it goes to court they usually lose. They can ban you in the future if they want, but they sold an "all you can eat" meal and are expected to provide that meal even if you're extra hungry. Much like the Hetzner article, there's an obvious physical cap that can't be exceeded, and they're supposedly selling up to that cap.
worldofmatthew 4y ago
Hetzner sell dedicated server with Unlimited and Guaranteed traffic at a 1Gbit port (As per the product pages).
KronisLV 4y ago
> If you want guaranteed volume and throughput, sign a contract for it. I think that what a lot of people have problems with, is the fact that Hetzner doesn't actually tell you what is okay and what isn't. Would using 70% of the link's capacity be okay? What about 60%? Or maybe 50% is where they draw the line? Here's another host that I use, Time4VPS, which have more clear terms: https://www.time4vps.com/?affid=5294 https://www.time4vps.com/?affid=5294 (remove affid for non-affiliate link if you don't want me to get a kickback in case anyone buys the services; I also host my blog with them) Their servers include a guaranteed amount of bandwidth, either at 100 Mbps or 1 Gbps. And should you exceed that limit, they're also clear about what will happen: > What happens if I run out of bandwidth? > We reduce your VPS server’s port speed 10 times until the new month starts. No worries, we won’t charge any extra fees or suspend your services. So if I'd exceed the amount that's given to me with any of their services, my 1 Gbps link would become a 100 Mbps link, or my 100 Mbps link would become a 10 Mbps link. On a technical level, it's obviously worse than Hetzner's offering (speaking of how much data you can actually move), but the transparency is nice and I wouldn't ever have to worry about my services being suspended because they don't automatically enforce any limitations just so they'd get to claim "unlimited" in their marketing materials. Disclaimer: I still use Hetzner personally, they're one of the more affordable platforms (pretty much the same pricing tier as Time4VPS) out there. Though it's also nice when service providers have some provisions in place to automatically introduce limits for those things that could cause problems, like the amount of bandwidth that's available to you. Or just charge you for it outright, so there are fewer unknown variables.
Handytinge 4y ago
You appear to be projecting your experiences in your country as "the consumer world". For example, Australia: https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2022/06/spintel-acma-unlimited-sim-only/amp/ https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2022/06/spintel-acma-unlimited-si...
- 0xy 4y ago
  ISPs in Australia regularly sell 'unlimited' connections that aren't unlimited, and ACMA allows it. [1] I'm surprised my own residential grade connection hasn't been flagged, given I consume over 10TB a month. [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/nbn/comments/hwz7l4/abb_cancels_service_with_person_who_used_34tb_in/ https://old.reddit.com/r/nbn/comments/hwz7l4/abb_cancels_ser...

That’s not how anything in the consumer world works. If you want guaranteed volume and throughput, sign a contract for it.

by teej 4y ago

That’s not how anything in the consumer world works. If you want guaranteed volume and throughput, sign a contract for it.

lazide 4y ago

And yet, that’s not how data center bandwidth is typically sold. Weird huh? It’s total bait and switch, and probably false advertising/fraud.

foobiekr 4y ago
A lot of colo and DC bandwidth is sold as port speed for the connection with no guarantees at all as to sustained bitrate to any other port including egress.
- lazide 4y ago
  Which is very different than caps and throttles!
- romwell 4y ago
  Yeah, and that's better than lying about the guarantees.

krn 4y ago

Exactly. In my country, an "Unlimited 4G LTE" data plan costs 12 EUR. But without any "fair usage" policy that would be simply impossible. Nobody would expect to use tens of TBs per month without ever being contacted or heavily throttled.

mort96 4y ago
Why would it be a bad thing for it to be illegal to lie? Just don't call the plan "unlimited", and have clearly stated limits. Obviously that's not as good marketing. Products usually look better if you lie about them to make them look better. But lying in marketing shouldn't be legal. And this shouldn't be controversial.
- krn 4y ago
  > Why would it be a bad thing for it to be illegal to lie? Just don't call the plan "unlimited", and have clearly stated limits. Maybe because the limits are not fixed and completely depend on the spending of the customer? If a customer is among the top 1% of the biggest users and – at the same time – among the top 1% of the smallest spenders, that simply raises the costs of the service for everyone else. There are only three choices here: a) get rid of the customer; b) make them pay more, or c) raise the prices of unlimited plans for everyone.
  - mort96 4y ago
    What does this have to do with anything? If the user if paying for a service, they should be getting that service. If the operator is offering a service which they can't afford to offer, that's not the user's problem.
    - krn 4y ago
      A private operator can choose to stop providing any service to any customer at any time. Especially, if it finds it to be economically unsustainable for their business. For instance, OVH has previously terminated accounts of paying customers simply because it didn't want to do any business with people from an occupied territory[1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29680251 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29680251
      - mort96 4y ago
        But what does that have to do with anything? Why can't operators just not lie to their customers? Just don't call the plan "unlimited". Have well-defined limits. They don't have to be hard limits, they can be a gradual speed reduction after some amount of data per month. Just don't lie. I don't understand why you think this is a difficult concept.
        krn 4y ago
        Again, the limits are not fixed, and therefore cannot be clearly defined. If a customer is spending $5K / month on dedicated servers, Hetzner might earn enough from renting hardware to cover truly unlimited usage of bandwidth. If a customer is spending only $50 / month, that's a completely different case. Such a customer might simply be not valuable enough to keep.
randunel 4y ago
I've got unlimited 4G/LTE/5G for €2/mo with reduced bandwidth after 55GB but still unlimited, and true unlimited for €5/mo without any bandwidth restrictions. I'm proxying traffic through mobile proxies and expect nothing less than unlimited. What herzer do amounts to false advertising when compared to the mobile traffic examples.
- gzer0 4y ago
  Where are you getting these prices?
- kytazo 4y ago
  yes please share any info possible, this will help a lot
romwell 4y ago
Well that's nonsense. Words have meanings for a reason. The meaning of the word "unlimited" is not, in fact, "limited, but we won't tell you what the limit is — you'll get to find it out the hard way". Whatever the terms of the "fair usage" policy are, that's what should be in the description. Otherwise, is plain old lying and misreading — which for some reason you are OK with.

encryptluks2 4y ago

Imagine going to a unlimited buffet restaurant per customer and paying an extra $15 and then being told after it is capped at one plate from the salad bar.

colejohnson66 4y ago
Except buffets do do that. Not that extreme, but if you go into a one and continue to eat for multiple hours, you’ll be kicked out despite having “unlimited food”.
- hansvm 4y ago
  And when it goes to court they usually lose. They can ban you in the future if they want, but they sold an "all you can eat" meal and are expected to provide that meal even if you're extra hungry. Much like the Hetzner article, there's an obvious physical cap that can't be exceeded, and they're supposedly selling up to that cap.

worldofmatthew 4y ago

Hetzner sell dedicated server with Unlimited and Guaranteed traffic at a 1Gbit port (As per the product pages).

KronisLV 4y ago

> If you want guaranteed volume and throughput, sign a contract for it. I think that what a lot of people have problems with, is the fact that Hetzner doesn't actually tell you what is okay and what isn't. Would using 70% of the link's capacity be okay? What about 60%? Or maybe 50% is where they draw the line? Here's another host that I use, Time4VPS, which have more clear terms: https://www.time4vps.com/?affid=5294 https://www.time4vps.com/?affid=5294 (remove affid for non-affiliate link if you don't want me to get a kickback in case anyone buys the services; I also host my blog with them) Their servers include a guaranteed amount of bandwidth, either at 100 Mbps or 1 Gbps. And should you exceed that limit, they're also clear about what will happen: > What happens if I run out of bandwidth? > We reduce your VPS server’s port speed 10 times until the new month starts. No worries, we won’t charge any extra fees or suspend your services. So if I'd exceed the amount that's given to me with any of their services, my 1 Gbps link would become a 100 Mbps link, or my 100 Mbps link would become a 10 Mbps link. On a technical level, it's obviously worse than Hetzner's offering (speaking of how much data you can actually move), but the transparency is nice and I wouldn't ever have to worry about my services being suspended because they don't automatically enforce any limitations just so they'd get to claim "unlimited" in their marketing materials. Disclaimer: I still use Hetzner personally, they're one of the more affordable platforms (pretty much the same pricing tier as Time4VPS) out there. Though it's also nice when service providers have some provisions in place to automatically introduce limits for those things that could cause problems, like the amount of bandwidth that's available to you. Or just charge you for it outright, so there are fewer unknown variables.

Handytinge 4y ago

You appear to be projecting your experiences in your country as "the consumer world". For example, Australia: https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2022/06/spintel-acma-unlimited-sim-only/amp/ https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2022/06/spintel-acma-unlimited-si...

0xy 4y ago
ISPs in Australia regularly sell 'unlimited' connections that aren't unlimited, and ACMA allows it. [1] I'm surprised my own residential grade connection hasn't been flagged, given I consume over 10TB a month. [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/nbn/comments/hwz7l4/abb_cancels_service_with_person_who_used_34tb_in/ https://old.reddit.com/r/nbn/comments/hwz7l4/abb_cancels_ser...