3 ms·

"Unlimited" really should mean fully unlimited. I also take issue with "up to" and other vagueness. There should be clear metrics and sizes that are precise a

"Unlimited" really should mean fully unlimited. I also take issue with "up to" and other vagueness. There should be clear metrics and sizes that are precise and not abbreviated in all ads and offers; and offers should also be public and non-discriminatory. A 'service check' for an address should also constitute a 'binding offer' (I.E. the ISP had better be very sure service can be provided at that address!)

pixl97 4y ago
Not using 'up to' is opening up all kinds of other cans of worms. Ok, 100mbps.... to where? The switch you're plugged into? The router at the data center? Some other random host in the network? Some other random host outside the network? So yea, everything on almost every network without a dedicated circuit is 'up to' simply because you can make no other guarantees.
- kazen44 4y ago
  also, what do you count as bandwith? Simply sending packets down a wire usually limits one to the physical speed of the interface, but even then some kind of packets might get dropped by various filters/mechanisms along the way. For instance, should i be able to use my full bandwith of my connection by sending purely BUM traffic down the link? Somewhere in the network, some policer is going to start dropping BUM traffic to protect the network against flooding.
  - pixl97 4y ago
    I remember years ago working with ISPs and many of their monitoring systems assumed that packet = 1500 bytes as a fixed measure. Running a DNS server at full throttle could lead to a situation where you'd get bandwidth charges for amounts higher than could be served at line rate. I'm assuming modern systems do this better, but I've learned never to make assumptions when they benefit the billing party more.
    - kazen44 4y ago
      it gets even more fun if you think about what people are actually paying for. For instance, do you charge for the overhead of the Ethernet frame? What about additional size thanks to tunneling/encapsulation? One could argue that no, you should not charge a customer for that because that is part of local transport inside a layer 2 domain, which is not in control of the customer. But what about things like MPLS labels? you could go and on and on..
turtlebits 4y ago
"Unlimited" is a marketing gimmick. There is no way to provide unlimited of anything. In most cases, "Unlimited" means you won't be cut off at a specific threshold, but the limits are to the provider's discretion. The other case is that you buy a specific usage tier, but that is probably going to cost a lot more, which is why "unlimited" plans exist.
qeternity 4y ago
Please understand you are in the minority. We have been very happy Hetzner customers for years. I don't want any of what you advocate. I know very well that "unlimited" doesn't mean unlimited. But for us, it is unlimited for all intents and purposes. When we deploy new jobs, or change backup routines, and burst tons of traffic one month, I don't have to worry about it because over the long run we are using a totally reasonable amount of traffic. And that's the thing: most people don't want to worry about this stuff. It's a minuscule fraction of people who care. And you just need to recognize that you're in the minority.

pixl97 4y ago

Not using 'up to' is opening up all kinds of other cans of worms. Ok, 100mbps.... to where? The switch you're plugged into? The router at the data center? Some other random host in the network? Some other random host outside the network? So yea, everything on almost every network without a dedicated circuit is 'up to' simply because you can make no other guarantees.

kazen44 4y ago
also, what do you count as bandwith? Simply sending packets down a wire usually limits one to the physical speed of the interface, but even then some kind of packets might get dropped by various filters/mechanisms along the way. For instance, should i be able to use my full bandwith of my connection by sending purely BUM traffic down the link? Somewhere in the network, some policer is going to start dropping BUM traffic to protect the network against flooding.
- pixl97 4y ago
  I remember years ago working with ISPs and many of their monitoring systems assumed that packet = 1500 bytes as a fixed measure. Running a DNS server at full throttle could lead to a situation where you'd get bandwidth charges for amounts higher than could be served at line rate. I'm assuming modern systems do this better, but I've learned never to make assumptions when they benefit the billing party more.
  - kazen44 4y ago
    it gets even more fun if you think about what people are actually paying for. For instance, do you charge for the overhead of the Ethernet frame? What about additional size thanks to tunneling/encapsulation? One could argue that no, you should not charge a customer for that because that is part of local transport inside a layer 2 domain, which is not in control of the customer. But what about things like MPLS labels? you could go and on and on..

turtlebits 4y ago

"Unlimited" is a marketing gimmick. There is no way to provide unlimited of anything. In most cases, "Unlimited" means you won't be cut off at a specific threshold, but the limits are to the provider's discretion. The other case is that you buy a specific usage tier, but that is probably going to cost a lot more, which is why "unlimited" plans exist.

qeternity 4y ago

Please understand you are in the minority. We have been very happy Hetzner customers for years. I don't want any of what you advocate. I know very well that "unlimited" doesn't mean unlimited. But for us, it is unlimited for all intents and purposes. When we deploy new jobs, or change backup routines, and burst tons of traffic one month, I don't have to worry about it because over the long run we are using a totally reasonable amount of traffic. And that's the thing: most people don't want to worry about this stuff. It's a minuscule fraction of people who care. And you just need to recognize that you're in the minority.