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GitHub also promotes remote work. Most of the company is remote and will always be remote.

mtlynch 4y ago
That's fair, but I think Gitlab promotes it more strongly. They're 100% remote, and they publish guides teaching other companies how to replicate their remote-first setup: https://about.gitlab.com/company/culture/all-remote/guide/ https://about.gitlab.com/company/culture/all-remote/guide/
- inferiorhuman 4y ago
  I interviewed with Github recently (a pretty mediocre experience overall) and it seemed like they've fully committed to remote work. They don't even bother with on site onboarding anymore.
  - hawaiianbrah 4y ago
    GitHub has been fully committed to remote work for years before the pandemic. I suspect they’ll bring back on site onboarding at some point, but maybe not. Sorry to hear your interview experience was mediocre. They’ve been tweaking it, and not for the better in my opinion.
- soneca 4y ago
  Gitlab advocates for paying local salaries. That’s actually against my “philosophy“ as you put it, as it is against my direct interest, being a non-US based software developer. Their way to promote remote work is, ironically, hurtful to my prospects as a remote worker.
  - CSMastermind 4y ago
    Yeah location based salary discrimination is one of the biggest issues in our industry in my opinion. I'm really hoping that the move to more remote-forward working cultures spurred by Covid will lead to this being corrected.
  - forty 4y ago
    Overpaying remote workers compared to the local market is bad as it create distortion of local markets (on housing especially where local non remote workers cannot afford living where they work). (I'm a remote worker outside of the US and my personal interest would be to be paid more, but I don't believe it would be the general interest)
    - Benjamin_Dobell 4y ago
      This line of reasoning doesn't consider equity, and the fact that people want to move - especially out of low socioeconomic areas. If you're paid a local wage, there's basically no way you'd ever be able to relocate to somewhere more expensive since selling your house wouldn't put a dent in the price of a home elsewhere.
      - inferiorhuman 4y ago
        Sure, but paying a high wage relative to the local prevailing wage is different than paying the same high wage everywhere. Part of the problem in the Bay Area is that tech companies distorted the local wages so dramatically.
        criley2 4y ago
        People are going to min-max whatever system you offer. If you don't pay equally and you adjust for cost of living, people are likely going to go for high CoL locations and make you pay the most. If you don't adjust for CoL, you'll likely see your devs leave high CoL areas for lower ones. While you might be "overpaying" them according to their chosen CoL, you're likely underpaying what the high CoL would have demanded. It seems counter-intuitive but I imagine that not doing CoL adjustments actually lowers total payroll.
        inferiorhuman 4y ago
        > It seems counter-intuitive but I imagine that not doing CoL adjustments actually lowers total payroll. That's not the problem that forty was talking about. The issue is that when you drop a ton of employees in an area whose wages are well beyond the norm you create larger societal problems.
  - mtlynch 4y ago
    That's fine. I'm not trying to convince anyone that Gitlab is the messiah or anything. Someone just asked me why I align more philosophically with Gitlab than Github, so I explained what appeals to me personally. If they don't align with your philosophy, that's cool too. You get to choose how that affects your choice of VCS/CI provider.
    - soneca 4y ago
      That’s fine too. I just not trying to convince you of anything. You said you like Gitlab because they strongly promote remote work. I said I don’t like because they promote local salaries. That’s it, I wasn’t asking for your permission to think different than you, I was just posting a different point of view.
  - lmm 4y ago
    IMO it's better for our long-term interest if companies can pay what the market will bear. For now splitting the surplus is win-win; as remote work takes off then there wil be more competition and salaries will rise. Growing the pie is better than asking SV employers to overpay on some point of principle.
    - soneca 4y ago
      What? I should not negotiate a better salary with a company on the belief that, in the long term, it will be better for… who? Overpay? How can I be overpaid if the company agrees to pay? Should I be more humble? Should I give up some part of my salary so the company can have more money in their budget? Which pie am I growing by not taking my part? Whose pie? That’s just silly
      - lmm 4y ago
        You should negotiate the best salary you can. What you shouldn't do is refuse to work for a company that's offering a better package than your current company out of some kind of principle because that company is also offering even better packages to employees somewhere else. Which is what you seemed to be advocating.

That's fair, but I think Gitlab promotes it more strongly. They're 100% remote, and they publish guides teaching other companies how to replicate their remote-first setup: https://about.gitlab.com/company/culture/all-remote/guide/ https://about.gitlab.com/company/culture/all-remote/guide/

inferiorhuman 4y ago
I interviewed with Github recently (a pretty mediocre experience overall) and it seemed like they've fully committed to remote work. They don't even bother with on site onboarding anymore.
- hawaiianbrah 4y ago
  GitHub has been fully committed to remote work for years before the pandemic. I suspect they’ll bring back on site onboarding at some point, but maybe not. Sorry to hear your interview experience was mediocre. They’ve been tweaking it, and not for the better in my opinion.
soneca 4y ago
Gitlab advocates for paying local salaries. That’s actually against my “philosophy“ as you put it, as it is against my direct interest, being a non-US based software developer. Their way to promote remote work is, ironically, hurtful to my prospects as a remote worker.
- CSMastermind 4y ago
  Yeah location based salary discrimination is one of the biggest issues in our industry in my opinion. I'm really hoping that the move to more remote-forward working cultures spurred by Covid will lead to this being corrected.
- forty 4y ago
  Overpaying remote workers compared to the local market is bad as it create distortion of local markets (on housing especially where local non remote workers cannot afford living where they work). (I'm a remote worker outside of the US and my personal interest would be to be paid more, but I don't believe it would be the general interest)
  - Benjamin_Dobell 4y ago
    This line of reasoning doesn't consider equity, and the fact that people want to move - especially out of low socioeconomic areas. If you're paid a local wage, there's basically no way you'd ever be able to relocate to somewhere more expensive since selling your house wouldn't put a dent in the price of a home elsewhere.
    - inferiorhuman 4y ago
      Sure, but paying a high wage relative to the local prevailing wage is different than paying the same high wage everywhere. Part of the problem in the Bay Area is that tech companies distorted the local wages so dramatically.
      - criley2 4y ago
        People are going to min-max whatever system you offer. If you don't pay equally and you adjust for cost of living, people are likely going to go for high CoL locations and make you pay the most. If you don't adjust for CoL, you'll likely see your devs leave high CoL areas for lower ones. While you might be "overpaying" them according to their chosen CoL, you're likely underpaying what the high CoL would have demanded. It seems counter-intuitive but I imagine that not doing CoL adjustments actually lowers total payroll.
        inferiorhuman 4y ago
        > It seems counter-intuitive but I imagine that not doing CoL adjustments actually lowers total payroll. That's not the problem that forty was talking about. The issue is that when you drop a ton of employees in an area whose wages are well beyond the norm you create larger societal problems.
- mtlynch 4y ago
  That's fine. I'm not trying to convince anyone that Gitlab is the messiah or anything. Someone just asked me why I align more philosophically with Gitlab than Github, so I explained what appeals to me personally. If they don't align with your philosophy, that's cool too. You get to choose how that affects your choice of VCS/CI provider.
  - soneca 4y ago
    That’s fine too. I just not trying to convince you of anything. You said you like Gitlab because they strongly promote remote work. I said I don’t like because they promote local salaries. That’s it, I wasn’t asking for your permission to think different than you, I was just posting a different point of view.
- lmm 4y ago
  IMO it's better for our long-term interest if companies can pay what the market will bear. For now splitting the surplus is win-win; as remote work takes off then there wil be more competition and salaries will rise. Growing the pie is better than asking SV employers to overpay on some point of principle.
  - soneca 4y ago
    What? I should not negotiate a better salary with a company on the belief that, in the long term, it will be better for… who? Overpay? How can I be overpaid if the company agrees to pay? Should I be more humble? Should I give up some part of my salary so the company can have more money in their budget? Which pie am I growing by not taking my part? Whose pie? That’s just silly
    - lmm 4y ago
      You should negotiate the best salary you can. What you shouldn't do is refuse to work for a company that's offering a better package than your current company out of some kind of principle because that company is also offering even better packages to employees somewhere else. Which is what you seemed to be advocating.