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Tesla is also thousands of brilliant engineers that transformed the industry, and not just one guy who tweets a lot.

timmytokyo 4y ago
In other words, Musk isn't doing his engineers any favors either.
izzydata 4y ago
Exactly, so they should do the only logical thing and vote out Elon as Tesla's CEO so he stops destroying whatever public image they have left. Elon doesn't "do" anything besides be a double edged hype machine.
- enragedcacti 4y ago
  It would be amazing if Tesla were a worker cooperative where that were possible. Trying to hold Elon to a standard in his companies gets you fired, not him: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-17/spacex-fires-employees-over-letter-critical-of-musk-s-behavior https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-17/spacex-fi...
  - izzydata 4y ago
    How can any self respecting individual work in such an environment? It's sad to know there are so many talented engineers that spend all of their days making amazing things that Elon just takes credit for.
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      I'm sorry but working for Tesla and building electric vehicles is more useful and more moral then most other companies. No matter if you think the CEO is an ass. If people knew or cared all the dumb shit all other car CEO said in their live, or all the corruption they engage in with the Union bosses and the list of things goes on. Compare working at Tesla and working at Lockheed Martin for example. How can self respecting engineer work there? You are literally building bombs that illegally blow up US citizens (and weddings) around the world. So if 'CEO fired a some people who clearly were not on board with CEO management style' is the reason for a moral panic, there are a whole lot of places you can never work at. And that's fine, but lets be clear about that.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  It my shock you, but most people in the world down know who Elon Musk is and the same goes for many people in the US. And many people, some the same don't know that Tesla and Elon Musk have anything to do with each other. Also, firing the CEO when the company is growing at breakneck speed while also having industry leading margin. Just for example, Tesla NetIncome this Q matched Ford and GM combined at 1/10 the revenue and in a Quarter where Tesla main factory was mostly closed. So I guess the question is how highly do you value image compared to 12 years of amazing growth.
slingnow 4y ago
It took "thousands of brilliant engineers" to replace the engine of a vehicle with some large batteries? I think you're overstating the "brilliance" of the engineers. I have no doubt the core of them working on the battery tech could be in the brilliant category, but the rest of those thousands of engineers are run-of-the-mill automotive engineers. Would you describe Ford as being composed of thousands of brilliant engineers?
- ajconway 4y ago
  > Would you describe Ford as being composed of thousands of brilliant engineers? Absolutely. I've seen people believe that creating a browser is no big deal, can you imagine developing, manufacturing, compliance certification, marketing and distribution of actual vehicles, planet-scale?
  - nr2x 4y ago
    Also the “crash” outcome isn’t lost tabs.
dwaite 4y ago
That one guy who tweets a lot can overrule and/or fire any one of those brilliant engineers. He can overpromise to the point of outright lying about functionality and delivery schedule. The CEO is not 'just one guy'
- ajconway 4y ago
  A CEO can do many things, but they generally don't design, develop, test and fix products. I have no personal affection for Elon Musk, just wanted to point out that the actual things we all use are products of genuine hard work by lots of different people.
babypuncher 4y ago
Is it my fault they hitched their wagon to a person who turned out to be crazy? If Tesla somehow folded overnight I'm sure all the other car companies making BEVs would be ecstatic to scoop up that newly available talent.
- nr2x 4y ago
  Yeah like the RTO mandate that turned into a Fire(d) Sale of top talent. Lol.
nr2x 4y ago
Which is why more and more auto companies are opening offices in SV to poach them. Hell, when was the last time Tesla released a new car? The Big Auto companies are rolling out new models every other week. Fact is, Tesla blew a lead and aren’t impressing.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  Yeah other car companies are really, really good at announcing new car models. I mean look at GM, so amazing by 2025 they are gone have 30 EVs. Of course in the last 6 month they have sold less then 10k EVs, about what Tesla does in a week or so. But I guess they announced many new models. > Fact is, Tesla blew a lead and aren’t impressing. A lead in what? They are dominating both in terms of volume and in terms of profitability. A few years ago everybody was hype about how VW would blew Tesla doors within a year or two, well turns out Tesla still matches VW for growth. > Hell, when was the last time Tesla released a new car? The question is, what is the goal? To release a car because you have released a car? Is that your goal? Because what matters in the real world is growth and profit. And if you have a fixed supply because of chips and batteries. Just building more different models while you can still sell your existing model is just financially idiotic. Other manufactures like VW spend billions to turn the ID.4 into a Skoda that is basically the exact same inside.

In other words, Musk isn't doing his engineers any favors either.

Exactly, so they should do the only logical thing and vote out Elon as Tesla's CEO so he stops destroying whatever public image they have left. Elon doesn't "do" anything besides be a double edged hype machine.

enragedcacti 4y ago
It would be amazing if Tesla were a worker cooperative where that were possible. Trying to hold Elon to a standard in his companies gets you fired, not him: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-17/spacex-fires-employees-over-letter-critical-of-musk-s-behavior https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-17/spacex-fi...
- izzydata 4y ago
  How can any self respecting individual work in such an environment? It's sad to know there are so many talented engineers that spend all of their days making amazing things that Elon just takes credit for.
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    I'm sorry but working for Tesla and building electric vehicles is more useful and more moral then most other companies. No matter if you think the CEO is an ass. If people knew or cared all the dumb shit all other car CEO said in their live, or all the corruption they engage in with the Union bosses and the list of things goes on. Compare working at Tesla and working at Lockheed Martin for example. How can self respecting engineer work there? You are literally building bombs that illegally blow up US citizens (and weddings) around the world. So if 'CEO fired a some people who clearly were not on board with CEO management style' is the reason for a moral panic, there are a whole lot of places you can never work at. And that's fine, but lets be clear about that.
panick21_ 4y ago
It my shock you, but most people in the world down know who Elon Musk is and the same goes for many people in the US. And many people, some the same don't know that Tesla and Elon Musk have anything to do with each other. Also, firing the CEO when the company is growing at breakneck speed while also having industry leading margin. Just for example, Tesla NetIncome this Q matched Ford and GM combined at 1/10 the revenue and in a Quarter where Tesla main factory was mostly closed. So I guess the question is how highly do you value image compared to 12 years of amazing growth.

slingnow 4y ago

It took "thousands of brilliant engineers" to replace the engine of a vehicle with some large batteries? I think you're overstating the "brilliance" of the engineers. I have no doubt the core of them working on the battery tech could be in the brilliant category, but the rest of those thousands of engineers are run-of-the-mill automotive engineers. Would you describe Ford as being composed of thousands of brilliant engineers?

ajconway 4y ago
> Would you describe Ford as being composed of thousands of brilliant engineers? Absolutely. I've seen people believe that creating a browser is no big deal, can you imagine developing, manufacturing, compliance certification, marketing and distribution of actual vehicles, planet-scale?
- nr2x 4y ago
  Also the “crash” outcome isn’t lost tabs.

dwaite 4y ago

That one guy who tweets a lot can overrule and/or fire any one of those brilliant engineers. He can overpromise to the point of outright lying about functionality and delivery schedule. The CEO is not 'just one guy'

ajconway 4y ago
A CEO can do many things, but they generally don't design, develop, test and fix products. I have no personal affection for Elon Musk, just wanted to point out that the actual things we all use are products of genuine hard work by lots of different people.

babypuncher 4y ago

Is it my fault they hitched their wagon to a person who turned out to be crazy? If Tesla somehow folded overnight I'm sure all the other car companies making BEVs would be ecstatic to scoop up that newly available talent.

nr2x 4y ago
Yeah like the RTO mandate that turned into a Fire(d) Sale of top talent. Lol.

nr2x 4y ago

Which is why more and more auto companies are opening offices in SV to poach them. Hell, when was the last time Tesla released a new car? The Big Auto companies are rolling out new models every other week. Fact is, Tesla blew a lead and aren’t impressing.

panick21_ 4y ago
Yeah other car companies are really, really good at announcing new car models. I mean look at GM, so amazing by 2025 they are gone have 30 EVs. Of course in the last 6 month they have sold less then 10k EVs, about what Tesla does in a week or so. But I guess they announced many new models. > Fact is, Tesla blew a lead and aren’t impressing. A lead in what? They are dominating both in terms of volume and in terms of profitability. A few years ago everybody was hype about how VW would blew Tesla doors within a year or two, well turns out Tesla still matches VW for growth. > Hell, when was the last time Tesla released a new car? The question is, what is the goal? To release a car because you have released a car? Is that your goal? Because what matters in the real world is growth and profit. And if you have a fixed supply because of chips and batteries. Just building more different models while you can still sell your existing model is just financially idiotic. Other manufactures like VW spend billions to turn the ID.4 into a Skoda that is basically the exact same inside.