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> They didn't buy from Tesla, but they're still a customer buying servicing from them. This strikes me as a result of Tesla's whole "ignore everything known by

> They didn't buy from Tesla, but they're still a customer buying servicing from them. This strikes me as a result of Tesla's whole "ignore everything known by car companies and act like software companies" approach. So far the software industry is young enough that most companies can expect that anyone approaching them for support is the same person who bought the software... but that's not at all the case for cars, what with resales, inheritances, etc being standard practice. I think a lot of software companies are going to be in for a rude awakening over the next 25 years or so, as hand-me-down devices and accounts become increasingly common. I wonder how many lawsuits it's going to take before companies purporting to "sell" software actually take wills into account.

babypuncher 4y ago
What consumer software actually sells with that kind of long-term support commitment? I doubt Microsoft will ever lose a lawsuit from someone seeking security updates for a copy of Windows 95 they inherited from their grandfather.
- crooked-v 4y ago
  None, sure, right now. But what happens when a judge eventually rules that putting 'actually, this is just a temporary license' in the fine print isn't sufficient? It's likely to happen eventually.
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    I think it is a stretch to go from "EULAs that declare software licenses to be temporary are invalid" to "software products must be actively supported with patches indefinitely".
    - crooked-v 4y ago
      Sure, but that's also not what I was talking about at all. Consider Steam, right now. What happens when some judge eventually rules that it's entirely reasonable to put your Steam library in your will and divide it up between different people?
enragedcacti 4y ago
> This strikes me as a result of Tesla's whole "ignore everything known by car companies and act like software companies" approach Yup, the Silicon Valley strategy "letting the fires burn". As long as you can acquire new customers with less effort than servicing existing ones, why bother? It worked at Paypal and it has worked so far at Tesla. We see year after year of 50%+ sales growth but nowhere near 50% increases in service capacity. It's the reason we see people waiting months for replacement parts (those parts can go into a new car, for a new customer!) and its the reason they pressure you into accepting bad workmanship so that the problems with the car become yours and not theirs and its now on you to convince them that it is not, in fact, "in spec". This is a 4 year old thread but Tesla still makes the same service mistakes (like the OP) today: https://twitter.com/grainsurgeon/status/1054732768465305600 https://twitter.com/grainsurgeon/status/1054732768465305600

babypuncher 4y ago

What consumer software actually sells with that kind of long-term support commitment? I doubt Microsoft will ever lose a lawsuit from someone seeking security updates for a copy of Windows 95 they inherited from their grandfather.

crooked-v 4y ago
None, sure, right now. But what happens when a judge eventually rules that putting 'actually, this is just a temporary license' in the fine print isn't sufficient? It's likely to happen eventually.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  I think it is a stretch to go from "EULAs that declare software licenses to be temporary are invalid" to "software products must be actively supported with patches indefinitely".
  - crooked-v 4y ago
    Sure, but that's also not what I was talking about at all. Consider Steam, right now. What happens when some judge eventually rules that it's entirely reasonable to put your Steam library in your will and divide it up between different people?

enragedcacti 4y ago

> This strikes me as a result of Tesla's whole "ignore everything known by car companies and act like software companies" approach Yup, the Silicon Valley strategy "letting the fires burn". As long as you can acquire new customers with less effort than servicing existing ones, why bother? It worked at Paypal and it has worked so far at Tesla. We see year after year of 50%+ sales growth but nowhere near 50% increases in service capacity. It's the reason we see people waiting months for replacement parts (those parts can go into a new car, for a new customer!) and its the reason they pressure you into accepting bad workmanship so that the problems with the car become yours and not theirs and its now on you to convince them that it is not, in fact, "in spec". This is a 4 year old thread but Tesla still makes the same service mistakes (like the OP) today: https://twitter.com/grainsurgeon/status/1054732768465305600 https://twitter.com/grainsurgeon/status/1054732768465305600