2 ms·

I have argued the same as you, it needs to be open source to fix the first two points. For the third one, nobody is forcing you to buy a specific product, but

I have argued the same as you, it needs to be open source to fix the first two points. For the third one, nobody is forcing you to buy a specific product, but yes, it will be hard to avoid. But like for vaccines, individual consent is at odds with the greater good. Society needs computing that it can trust. Maybe the solution is a healthier hobbyist market where you can buy "use at your own risk" unlocked computers? Maybe we need laws to force manufacturers to make such models? I don't know. But most people, from my mom to my CEO need a computer that will run what it is supposed to run. It's not 1990 any more, PCs do way too important things.

hedora 4y ago
This would be comparable to vaccines if Bill Gates had actually hidden tracker/kill-switch chips in each dose... There's no reason to think a large, opaque computing base that's been forced into the market by a monopoly power is trustworthy. I'd argue that "boot sector tampering with physical access" is pretty low on the list of computer-related real-world attacks against society; it's certainly lower than zero-days caused by implementation errors in baroque computer software / hardware. Also, suggesting you can avoid having a computer (or phone) at this point is ludicrous. It's like suggesting you can avoid using credit cards and cash. Some would argue it is actually easier to give up living under a roof than to give up owning a cell phone (and make exactly that tradeoff).
- doubled112 4y ago
  You can choose not to use them. Most of the ways people got things done in the past haven't disappeared, although some are more difficult to find now. My mother does not have an Internet connection. Or a computer. Or a cell phone. She definitely prefers to live under a roof. She's just not interested in any of the above.
no_time 4y ago
>Society needs computing that it can trust. The playbook that is unfolding right now with pluton is the exact opposite.
hulitu 4y ago
> Society needs computing that it can trust. Then it shouldn't mess with trust. Closed source tricks is not trust. And MS lost its credibility long ago. Every closed system on a computer inspires distrust.
Schroedingersat 4y ago
> For the third one, nobody is forcing you to buy a specific product, but yes, it will be hard to avoid. Yes it is being forced. We have single digit years before participation in society becomes impossible without a device that attests that it is not under the control of the owner. First it will be banks, then government services, then access to the social graph, and so on. > But like for vaccines, individual consent is at odds with the greater good. Society needs computing that it can trust. So not under the control of centralised corporations that get paid when they successfully manipulate you into doing something you wouldn't otherwise, and have a proven track record of unaccountable censorship.

hedora 4y ago

This would be comparable to vaccines if Bill Gates had actually hidden tracker/kill-switch chips in each dose... There's no reason to think a large, opaque computing base that's been forced into the market by a monopoly power is trustworthy. I'd argue that "boot sector tampering with physical access" is pretty low on the list of computer-related real-world attacks against society; it's certainly lower than zero-days caused by implementation errors in baroque computer software / hardware. Also, suggesting you can avoid having a computer (or phone) at this point is ludicrous. It's like suggesting you can avoid using credit cards and cash. Some would argue it is actually easier to give up living under a roof than to give up owning a cell phone (and make exactly that tradeoff).

doubled112 4y ago
You can choose not to use them. Most of the ways people got things done in the past haven't disappeared, although some are more difficult to find now. My mother does not have an Internet connection. Or a computer. Or a cell phone. She definitely prefers to live under a roof. She's just not interested in any of the above.

no_time 4y ago

>Society needs computing that it can trust. The playbook that is unfolding right now with pluton is the exact opposite.

hulitu 4y ago

> Society needs computing that it can trust. Then it shouldn't mess with trust. Closed source tricks is not trust. And MS lost its credibility long ago. Every closed system on a computer inspires distrust.

Schroedingersat 4y ago

> For the third one, nobody is forcing you to buy a specific product, but yes, it will be hard to avoid. Yes it is being forced. We have single digit years before participation in society becomes impossible without a device that attests that it is not under the control of the owner. First it will be banks, then government services, then access to the social graph, and so on. > But like for vaccines, individual consent is at odds with the greater good. Society needs computing that it can trust. So not under the control of centralised corporations that get paid when they successfully manipulate you into doing something you wouldn't otherwise, and have a proven track record of unaccountable censorship.