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I don't have any special love for Shopify, but I think this is one of the best and most empathetic lay-off messages I've seen. No businessspeak, no buzzwords, n

I don't have any special love for Shopify, but I think this is one of the best and most empathetic lay-off messages I've seen. No businessspeak, no buzzwords, no nonsense about great journeys. Total clarity about what's going to happen. Very generous and thought-through benefit package that protects those who are leaving. Now, just don't tie those benefits to an NDA, and you'll truly be a company I'd look forward to getting fired from, Shopify.

s_dev 4y ago
>Those lines of code started a company and sent it on a fascinating journey full of wonder I looked forward to reading a lay off message without the obligatory "what a journey" message but like that was in the opening paragraph. I'd say the message was fairly standard.
- ivraatiems 4y ago
  True, but it's one brief paragraph, not more than 50% of the message like we've seen.
mabbo 4y ago
Honestly, it's exactly this that made me choose to work here over a higher total comp elsewhere. It's what's kept me even after the stock crashed so hard. Tobi isn't a sociopath. The people he puts at the top aren't sociopaths. They're genuinely nice people, trying their best, and trying to do their best for everyone despite hard situations. It truly is just a book club disguised as a publicly traded company.
- Valakas_ 4y ago
  There should be sociopathy/narcissim/lack of empathy screenings early in life, and people scored based on it. Based on that jobs would be limited/encouraged. Put sociopaths in jobs where impact is limited.
  - crgwbr 4y ago
    Sure, because GATTACA is totally the world we all want to live in. /s
- shmatt 4y ago
  I guess that explains the stock price. I would never invest in a book club In all seriousness, I would separate the fact the top executives are good people, with the fact (at least in the U.S) they have become notorious low ballers for top engineers
- tensor 4y ago
  Interesting, I have the exact opposite view based what I hear from friends who work there. Kaz alone would make me never want to work at such an anti-intellectual, purely opinion and aggression driven workplace.
  - ivraatiems 4y ago
    Who or what is Kaz?
    - renewiltord 4y ago
      I googled "Kaz Shopify" and got https://www.linkedin.com/in/kasranejatian/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/kasranejatian/
    - Gunnerhead 4y ago
      Seems like VP of Merchant Services? Not familiar with him. https://ca.linkedin.com/in/kasranejatian https://ca.linkedin.com/in/kasranejatian
  - altdataseller 4y ago
    Same here, but my view is from interacting with some of them, specifically some higher-up engineers. They acted as if they were so much better than you somehow. I don't know if it was the fact their RSUs were making them rich, or something. Not everyone is like this of course, but it left an awful first impression on me.
    - tensor 4y ago
      Yeah, that's common from what I hear. Also on the UX side you need approvals all the way up the chain even to Toby who can just veto your project a week before release for what amounts to personal preferences. Maybe the dev side is better but my impression is that the design side has no ownership and is driven primarily by the loudest opinion rather than any sort of data or testing. And when you have five layers of approvals where people pick on the easiest and least important aspects that ends up being a very slow design by committee. The end result of this culture is very low efficiency and consistently mediocre outcomes. The people who thrive in their culture appear to be the loudest and most aggressive.
- ivraatiems 4y ago
  If you're working there now, what's your take on the layoffs? Necessary/sensible? Who seems to be leaving?
ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago
Indeed. Compare this to Klarna's CEO https://www.klarna.com/uk/blog/company-announcement-from-ceo-sebastian/ https://www.klarna.com/uk/blog/company-announcement-from-ceo... who never mentioned the actual firing. 10% is "getting impacted". I find it ridiculous when people use language like this. Especially a CEO. Have some courage and say the thing out loud. Shopify seems to have a much better CEO.
- ivraatiems 4y ago
  This is exactly the message I was thinking of when I wrote my original post, but I had forgotten which company it was. Thank you!
- simonhamp 4y ago
  In the UK you are not allowed to talk about people getting fired; you must talk about redundancy and roles (not people) being made 'potentially' redundant (i.e. 'impacted') It's a very controlled legal wording and process for a large redundancy approach and must be adhered to very carefully so as not to fall foul of tribunals and unfair dismissals. I don't know Klarna or Shopify from the inside, but I suspect this difference is largely down to the differences in legal obligations between Canada and the UK
  - vasco 4y ago
    What happens if in the UK you say "getting fired"?
    - barkingcat 4y ago
      You get fired for saying you get fired?
    - draaglom 4y ago
      someone takes what you said to an employment tribunal and makes the case they were fired without the proper dismissal process ('unfair dismissal')
    - 4y ago
Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
This is a good one. What I wish I'd see from all companies doing layoffs
irajdeep 4y ago
Liked the mention of "comradery" over "family".
golemiprague 4y ago
wb14123 4y ago
This reminds me that some Chinese tech companies (Bilibili and JD.com for example) fired people recently with words like "graduate from the company" and "congrats" them. It's really grossing.

s_dev 4y ago

>Those lines of code started a company and sent it on a fascinating journey full of wonder I looked forward to reading a lay off message without the obligatory "what a journey" message but like that was in the opening paragraph. I'd say the message was fairly standard.

ivraatiems 4y ago
True, but it's one brief paragraph, not more than 50% of the message like we've seen.

mabbo 4y ago

Honestly, it's exactly this that made me choose to work here over a higher total comp elsewhere. It's what's kept me even after the stock crashed so hard. Tobi isn't a sociopath. The people he puts at the top aren't sociopaths. They're genuinely nice people, trying their best, and trying to do their best for everyone despite hard situations. It truly is just a book club disguised as a publicly traded company.

Valakas_ 4y ago
There should be sociopathy/narcissim/lack of empathy screenings early in life, and people scored based on it. Based on that jobs would be limited/encouraged. Put sociopaths in jobs where impact is limited.
- crgwbr 4y ago
  Sure, because GATTACA is totally the world we all want to live in. /s
shmatt 4y ago
I guess that explains the stock price. I would never invest in a book club In all seriousness, I would separate the fact the top executives are good people, with the fact (at least in the U.S) they have become notorious low ballers for top engineers
tensor 4y ago
Interesting, I have the exact opposite view based what I hear from friends who work there. Kaz alone would make me never want to work at such an anti-intellectual, purely opinion and aggression driven workplace.
- ivraatiems 4y ago
  Who or what is Kaz?
  - renewiltord 4y ago
    I googled "Kaz Shopify" and got https://www.linkedin.com/in/kasranejatian/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/kasranejatian/
  - Gunnerhead 4y ago
    Seems like VP of Merchant Services? Not familiar with him. https://ca.linkedin.com/in/kasranejatian https://ca.linkedin.com/in/kasranejatian
- altdataseller 4y ago
  Same here, but my view is from interacting with some of them, specifically some higher-up engineers. They acted as if they were so much better than you somehow. I don't know if it was the fact their RSUs were making them rich, or something. Not everyone is like this of course, but it left an awful first impression on me.
  - tensor 4y ago
    Yeah, that's common from what I hear. Also on the UX side you need approvals all the way up the chain even to Toby who can just veto your project a week before release for what amounts to personal preferences. Maybe the dev side is better but my impression is that the design side has no ownership and is driven primarily by the loudest opinion rather than any sort of data or testing. And when you have five layers of approvals where people pick on the easiest and least important aspects that ends up being a very slow design by committee. The end result of this culture is very low efficiency and consistently mediocre outcomes. The people who thrive in their culture appear to be the loudest and most aggressive.
ivraatiems 4y ago
If you're working there now, what's your take on the layoffs? Necessary/sensible? Who seems to be leaving?

ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago

Indeed. Compare this to Klarna's CEO https://www.klarna.com/uk/blog/company-announcement-from-ceo-sebastian/ https://www.klarna.com/uk/blog/company-announcement-from-ceo... who never mentioned the actual firing. 10% is "getting impacted". I find it ridiculous when people use language like this. Especially a CEO. Have some courage and say the thing out loud. Shopify seems to have a much better CEO.

ivraatiems 4y ago
This is exactly the message I was thinking of when I wrote my original post, but I had forgotten which company it was. Thank you!
simonhamp 4y ago
In the UK you are not allowed to talk about people getting fired; you must talk about redundancy and roles (not people) being made 'potentially' redundant (i.e. 'impacted') It's a very controlled legal wording and process for a large redundancy approach and must be adhered to very carefully so as not to fall foul of tribunals and unfair dismissals. I don't know Klarna or Shopify from the inside, but I suspect this difference is largely down to the differences in legal obligations between Canada and the UK
- vasco 4y ago
  What happens if in the UK you say "getting fired"?
  - barkingcat 4y ago
    You get fired for saying you get fired?
  - draaglom 4y ago
    someone takes what you said to an employment tribunal and makes the case they were fired without the proper dismissal process ('unfair dismissal')
  - 4y ago

Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago

This is a good one. What I wish I'd see from all companies doing layoffs

irajdeep 4y ago

Liked the mention of "comradery" over "family".

golemiprague 4y ago

wb14123 4y ago

This reminds me that some Chinese tech companies (Bilibili and JD.com for example) fired people recently with words like "graduate from the company" and "congrats" them. It's really grossing.