4 ms·

If it's only one card, then you can say that. But if there is a pattern of Amazon account X buying these cards to be used for Mullvad account Y, then it's harde

If it's only one card, then you can say that. But if there is a pattern of Amazon account X buying these cards to be used for Mullvad account Y, then it's harder to deny. Is it possible to redeem Amazon gift cards without an Amazon account? I suppose another thing you can do is buy and swap cards with other people. Each card can be up to 12 months so you don't actually need to do this that many times.

masukomi 4y ago
there's no way to prove that the cards bought on amazon account X were used for Mullvad account Y. That would require knowing the codes on the cards that amazon sold you, which no-one would. all that can be said with certainty is: 1. that these people bought mullvad cards on amazon. 2. these mullvad accounts were paid with cards All you can say is that 2 is a subset of 1. If mullvad sells the cards literally anywhere else, then you can't even say that with certainty.
- j16sdiz 4y ago
  mullvad are selling them elsewhere: https://mullvad.net/en/help/partnerships-and-resellers/ https://mullvad.net/en/help/partnerships-and-resellers/
- hnarn 4y ago
  > If mullvad sells the cards literally anywhere else, then you can't even say that with certainty. Mullvad doesn’t even have to sell them anywhere else: anyone who bought one on Amazon could have re-sold it, individually or in bulk. That’s the clever part.
  - silverpepsi 4y ago
    What does that have to do with anything though, maybe I'm not following If i tried to claim in court I bought and resold, they'll expect to see the paper trail or judt dismiss my comment
    - hnarn 4y ago
      If you want to re-sell for the explicit purpose of having plausible deniability, obviously the best way to go about that would be to actually re-sell and keep your books straight (like any business is expected to). The point is that you don’t have to do this, someone else can do it for another reason (namely profit) and the increased anonymity still applies compared to the other payment options.
- caeril 4y ago
  You're missing the point that Mullvad still has your connecting IP address. There have been countless cases demonstrating that "no-log" VPN providers definitely do log, and even if by some miracle Mullvad doesn't, they can be compelled to start doing so, as the Protonmail case demonstrates. This does nothing to reduce the paper trail. If you really really really trust Mullvad (and you shouldn't), just use Monero.
  - miked85 4y ago
    > just use Monero The on-ramp to "just use Monero" isn't that simple for over 99% of users I'm guessing. Also, if they have your IP address logged, does it even matter how you paid?
Rastonbury 4y ago
The pattern cannot prove anything just because I buy cards every month can't prove I use them for Mullvad. If someone gets shot on my street and I have a gun and none of my neighbors do and they cannot match the ballistics there is almost no case.

masukomi 4y ago

there's no way to prove that the cards bought on amazon account X were used for Mullvad account Y. That would require knowing the codes on the cards that amazon sold you, which no-one would. all that can be said with certainty is: 1. that these people bought mullvad cards on amazon. 2. these mullvad accounts were paid with cards All you can say is that 2 is a subset of 1. If mullvad sells the cards literally anywhere else, then you can't even say that with certainty.

j16sdiz 4y ago
mullvad are selling them elsewhere: https://mullvad.net/en/help/partnerships-and-resellers/ https://mullvad.net/en/help/partnerships-and-resellers/
hnarn 4y ago
> If mullvad sells the cards literally anywhere else, then you can't even say that with certainty. Mullvad doesn’t even have to sell them anywhere else: anyone who bought one on Amazon could have re-sold it, individually or in bulk. That’s the clever part.
- silverpepsi 4y ago
  What does that have to do with anything though, maybe I'm not following If i tried to claim in court I bought and resold, they'll expect to see the paper trail or judt dismiss my comment
  - hnarn 4y ago
    If you want to re-sell for the explicit purpose of having plausible deniability, obviously the best way to go about that would be to actually re-sell and keep your books straight (like any business is expected to). The point is that you don’t have to do this, someone else can do it for another reason (namely profit) and the increased anonymity still applies compared to the other payment options.
caeril 4y ago
You're missing the point that Mullvad still has your connecting IP address. There have been countless cases demonstrating that "no-log" VPN providers definitely do log, and even if by some miracle Mullvad doesn't, they can be compelled to start doing so, as the Protonmail case demonstrates. This does nothing to reduce the paper trail. If you really really really trust Mullvad (and you shouldn't), just use Monero.
- miked85 4y ago
  > just use Monero The on-ramp to "just use Monero" isn't that simple for over 99% of users I'm guessing. Also, if they have your IP address logged, does it even matter how you paid?

Rastonbury 4y ago

The pattern cannot prove anything just because I buy cards every month can't prove I use them for Mullvad. If someone gets shot on my street and I have a gun and none of my neighbors do and they cannot match the ballistics there is almost no case.