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If you're interested in some constructive arguments why this article is wrong, please see a thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1516162437455654913.html

If you're interested in some constructive arguments why this article is wrong, please see a thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1516162437455654913.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1516162437455654913.html

Ma8ee 4y ago
I’m quite certain a very similar article could be written about, say, UK and Ireland with quotes from famous authors. It’s not that the English lack an imperialist past and feelings of superiority.
- WesolyKubeczek 4y ago
  If UK will take weapons and go on a killing spree to “restore the great empire”, I’m gonna boycott them just as much.
  - Ma8ee 4y ago
    The point is that you can write a very similar article about a country that doesn’t invade its neighbours, which means that it just doesn’t prove anything.
  - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
    Be just in your quest for justice. If the UK goes on a killing spree to restore the empire, that has zero to do with Shakespeare or Milton. Don't blame the centuries-dead guys for the current generation's going genocidal. Sure, there may be plenty to boycott. Boycott anyone who supports the genocidal regime. The dead ones didn't get a say, though.
  - the_af 4y ago
    The UK has plenty of great authors, I'll make sure to keep reading them even if the UK decided to go on a genocidal rampage. That's because I understand that not all British people are the same, and especially not the same at all times, and also know that literature has ties to the present, but it doesn't necessarily cause the present. In fact, many times the leaders who decide to go to war deride the classics, or would have imprisoned/executed them had they lived during the same time.
- bay18 4y ago
zby 4y ago
I love Galeev threads - but he is sometimes a bit slopy. In this tread the quote "Submit, Cherkes! Both West and East, May soon share your fate, When the time comes, you'll say arrogantly: Yes, I'm a slave but a slave of the Tsar of the World!" he attributes to Pushkin is from "Ismail Bey" by Lermontov.
- lovecg 4y ago
  I nod along with a lot of the things he says, but only because I’m already deeply familiar with them. I think for someone less familiar it’s easy to get an illusion of learning, as he frequently exaggerates to make a point and makes some basic mistakes here and there.
unmole 4y ago
So, the arguments are: 1. Pushkin supported the Russian unitary empire and subjugation of Ukraine. 2. Pushkin was instrumental in the development of the modern Russian language and is thus seen as symbolising the forced linguistic homogenisation imposed on Ukrainians. The first argument has some explaining power as to why Ukrainians wouldn't want to have a Pushkin memorial. The second argument is presented with a helping of founding myth: Russians are a homogeneous blob of NPCs, Ukrainians are autonomous and diverse individuals. This is a weak argument. For a thread that rails about conflating history with modern reality, it strangely sidesteps contemporary linguistic politics. The modern Russian state has federal divisions specifically for non-Russian ethnic groups called republics which are distinct from oblasts i.e. provinces. And these republics established official languages of their own as expressly allowed by the Russian constitution. Ukraine on the other hand clamped down on the use of Russian and Hungarian. Ukrainian is a co-official language in Russian occupied Crimea but Russian has no official status anywhere in Ukraine. And considering how unnecessarily long-winded the thread is, I wouldn't say it was particularly constructive.
- ROTMetro 4y ago
  Why do you ignore that the one Federation that didn't teach Russian in schools was forced to change their policy? Russia can have all the written rules they want, they follow them the same way they followed their statements during February that 'they had no intention to invade Ukraine', or agree to allow Ukraine shipment of grain then bomb the ports to ensure no ships will risk docking there, or their law making non-defensive wars illegal (hence this is not a war to them). China has freedom of speech and democracy guaranteed by their constitution, would you defend China's open press and elections next as quickly as you are defending Russia's hollow laws? (not anti-Russians here, my grandfather was Russian, but definitely anti-Russia today).
  - unmole 4y ago
    > Why do you ignore that the one Federation that didn't teach Russian in schools was forced to change their policy? What federation? I have no idea what you're talking about. I made a specific claim about the status of minority languages in Russia and Ukraine. Do you have any evidence to show that it is inaccurate? > Russia can have all the written rules they want What exactly are you implying in this specific instance? That minority languages aren't actually used? The state broadcaster runs services in a dozen or so minority languages.

Ma8ee 4y ago

I’m quite certain a very similar article could be written about, say, UK and Ireland with quotes from famous authors. It’s not that the English lack an imperialist past and feelings of superiority.

WesolyKubeczek 4y ago
If UK will take weapons and go on a killing spree to “restore the great empire”, I’m gonna boycott them just as much.
- Ma8ee 4y ago
  The point is that you can write a very similar article about a country that doesn’t invade its neighbours, which means that it just doesn’t prove anything.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  Be just in your quest for justice. If the UK goes on a killing spree to restore the empire, that has zero to do with Shakespeare or Milton. Don't blame the centuries-dead guys for the current generation's going genocidal. Sure, there may be plenty to boycott. Boycott anyone who supports the genocidal regime. The dead ones didn't get a say, though.
- the_af 4y ago
  The UK has plenty of great authors, I'll make sure to keep reading them even if the UK decided to go on a genocidal rampage. That's because I understand that not all British people are the same, and especially not the same at all times, and also know that literature has ties to the present, but it doesn't necessarily cause the present. In fact, many times the leaders who decide to go to war deride the classics, or would have imprisoned/executed them had they lived during the same time.
bay18 4y ago

zby 4y ago

I love Galeev threads - but he is sometimes a bit slopy. In this tread the quote "Submit, Cherkes! Both West and East, May soon share your fate, When the time comes, you'll say arrogantly: Yes, I'm a slave but a slave of the Tsar of the World!" he attributes to Pushkin is from "Ismail Bey" by Lermontov.

lovecg 4y ago
I nod along with a lot of the things he says, but only because I’m already deeply familiar with them. I think for someone less familiar it’s easy to get an illusion of learning, as he frequently exaggerates to make a point and makes some basic mistakes here and there.

unmole 4y ago

So, the arguments are: 1. Pushkin supported the Russian unitary empire and subjugation of Ukraine. 2. Pushkin was instrumental in the development of the modern Russian language and is thus seen as symbolising the forced linguistic homogenisation imposed on Ukrainians. The first argument has some explaining power as to why Ukrainians wouldn't want to have a Pushkin memorial. The second argument is presented with a helping of founding myth: Russians are a homogeneous blob of NPCs, Ukrainians are autonomous and diverse individuals. This is a weak argument. For a thread that rails about conflating history with modern reality, it strangely sidesteps contemporary linguistic politics. The modern Russian state has federal divisions specifically for non-Russian ethnic groups called republics which are distinct from oblasts i.e. provinces. And these republics established official languages of their own as expressly allowed by the Russian constitution. Ukraine on the other hand clamped down on the use of Russian and Hungarian. Ukrainian is a co-official language in Russian occupied Crimea but Russian has no official status anywhere in Ukraine. And considering how unnecessarily long-winded the thread is, I wouldn't say it was particularly constructive.

ROTMetro 4y ago
Why do you ignore that the one Federation that didn't teach Russian in schools was forced to change their policy? Russia can have all the written rules they want, they follow them the same way they followed their statements during February that 'they had no intention to invade Ukraine', or agree to allow Ukraine shipment of grain then bomb the ports to ensure no ships will risk docking there, or their law making non-defensive wars illegal (hence this is not a war to them). China has freedom of speech and democracy guaranteed by their constitution, would you defend China's open press and elections next as quickly as you are defending Russia's hollow laws? (not anti-Russians here, my grandfather was Russian, but definitely anti-Russia today).
- unmole 4y ago
  > Why do you ignore that the one Federation that didn't teach Russian in schools was forced to change their policy? What federation? I have no idea what you're talking about. I made a specific claim about the status of minority languages in Russia and Ukraine. Do you have any evidence to show that it is inaccurate? > Russia can have all the written rules they want What exactly are you implying in this specific instance? That minority languages aren't actually used? The state broadcaster runs services in a dozen or so minority languages.