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Yup. Exhibit A, found on this very site [0]: Cooking for one in the US with ingredients that aren’t laced with preservatives is incredibly expensive, especia

Yup. Exhibit A, found on this very site [0]: Cooking for one in the US with ingredients that aren’t laced with preservatives is incredibly expensive, especially if you live in a city. I found it to be the case even 6-7 years ago that it was cheaper to eat out every night than it was to cook. I was scratching my head at how so many people in the thread could possibly believe this, until I realized that they’re probably not actually cooking, but rather buying prepackaged meals and heating them up. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32128893 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32128893

abeppu 4y ago
When I lived in NYC, I felt this was often true, but my hypothesis was that it was a reflection of the real estate footprint of grocery stores. A restaurant can receive daily shipments from vendors based in the outer boroughs (or further). If I really wanted to, I could have taken the subway to Queens for grocery runs, but that wasn't actually going to happen. But the Whole Foods on Houston takes up a large footprint of valuable real estate, and of course that drives up the price of everything. The choice between cooking and eating takeout weighs the labor of the kitchen staff (ideally low in a high throughput kitchen) vs the overhead of a supply chain which uses more high-value space.
- valarauko 4y ago
  No need to go all the way to Queens for the groceries - just a few blocks from the Whole Foods on Houston you have the grocery stores of Chinatown, and even the produce from the street vendors is decent - and cheap.
stonemetal12 4y ago
If I go to McDonalds, I can get a hamburger for a dollar. At the grocery store I can't get the meat for a hamburger for a dollar.
- buescher 4y ago
  True, but you should be able to make 20 burgers for less than $20; easily if you already have condiments on hand. McDonald's burgers have 1.6 oz (1/10 lb) ground beef patties, and 80:20 ground beef is about $4/lb in most of the US.
galdosdi 4y ago
This is so true. If you actually know how to cook (and I just mean the basics that most people, or at least most women knew in the year 1900, nothing fancy) you feel gaslit constantly when you hear people talk about how hard it is to eat nutritiously and affordably. You can see this with the inflation discussion -- you can tell immediately if someone can cook by if they complain about the current inflation in the context of food or not. If you truly cook based on commodities, it's barely noticable. If you eat out or use mostly processed and premade "ingredients" with big brand names, yeah, it's a lot more expensive. What corporate america did to US food culture in the 20th century is comparable to the enclosure movement in preindustrial England. There was a common resource that belonged to and was highly valuable to all (cultural knowledge of how to prepare cheap nutritious palatable food from scratch, using time effeciently), and it was destroyed and monopolized by a small group. Crazy as it seems to those on the outside, there are entire generations of families in the USA who have inherited nothing more from their ancestors in terms of food culture than preferences for certain brands. The irony is there's never been a better time for the every day worker to be able to cook for themselves with limited time and budget, thanks to modern appliances like instant pots, dishwashers, microwaves, and freezers. A homemaker from 1900 would be flabbergasted and overjoyed. What's missing is the operational knowledge and habits.
alberth 4y ago
> I was scratching my head at how so many people in the thread could possibly believe this, until I realized that they’re probably not actually cooking, but rather buying prepackaged meals and heating them up. I don't think that's the case. When a person can have an entire dinner meal at Taco Bell for less than $5, or jumbo hot dog + drink at Costco for $1.25 ... cooking at home is definitely more expensive. https://www.tacobell.com/food https://www.tacobell.com/food
- evnix 4y ago
  in Ireland, as someone living alone, I spend close to 40 euros a week. 4 euros for a kilo of ground beef 4 euros for a kilo of whole chicken 7 euros for a kilo of pork and 4 to 5 euros for fish and 2 to 4 euros for rice and wraps. onions, garlic, fresh tomatoes are around a euro for a pack that's enough for a week. 5 to 10 euros for spices but they last for atleast a month. I throw in a few frozen veggies into rice which again is euro or two. I dont order or eat out, I generally do this to eat clean healthy food but the addon benefit is I notice I save a lot more when compared to my colleagues and I generally look healthier even though I eat a lot more.
- MontyCarloHall 4y ago
  Buy ground beef, beans, rice, and tortillas in bulk (or even cheaper, make them yourself—it’s not hard!) and be smart about planning to use vegetables and other perishables efficiently across multiple dishes, and you’re going to be making Taco Bell menu items at home that are far superior to Taco Bell for much less than $5. Buying hotdogs, buns, and soda in bulk will probably cost ~$1.25 per meal, if not less. You can freeze the dogs and buns; the latter will still taste great after a light toasting.
  - ilikecakeandpie 4y ago
    There's the opportunity and comfort cost as well though. I can definitely see how one could see spending $5 on a box they can grab from the drive thru and immediately throw away is a better choice than going to the store, meal planning, ensuring there's proper refrigerator and freezer space, making sure the perishables are used, and then also taking the time to clean the dishes used afterwards. $5 for a few minutes of effort vs spending slightly less for usually at least half an hour to an hour when off hours during the work week are at a premium can make that extra spend very attractive, especially if they're single
ghaff 4y ago
If your sole metric is price, there is some very cheap takeout out there. And, yes, it may well be as cheap or cheaper than meals in the supermarket freezer section. But while some planning and a little work is needed, stick to cheaper proteins (chicken/pork), vegetables, and things like rice/beans and home cooking, even for one, can be pretty inexpensive and doesn't need to mean eating the same leftover stew for a week. I do think a lot of "cooking at home is too expensive" is actually "I don't want to cook at home and would rather just get takeout." ADDED: And especially if you relax the cost constraint a little bit, there are a ton of meals I can make from unprocessed or minimally processed frozen food in about 15 minutes from freezer to table. Less than $10 for a meal is trivial--and can be significantly less than that.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- geodel 4y ago
  Well, we cook at home almost every meal throughout the year. Something I noticed compared to old country that for lot of people here each meal is always about the food they like to eat at that time. Whereas for us that likeness/preferred meal is only couple times a week or so. Most meals are really like rotation of stuff from pantry and fridge. If I were to eat only meals I feel like eating all the time it would be too much of mental hassle even if I could afford to purchase ingredients.
  - solardev 4y ago
    What are the meals you don't like, and cook anyway? Why do you even stock ingredients for them then? Are they just easier to make, or?
    - ghaff 4y ago
      Not the parent, but I read it as, sometimes you're cooking the meal you want to eat tonight. Other times it's "What do I have in the house?" There definitely many times when I'm "I should use something from the freezer" or "I need to use this meat cut I bought a couple days ago."
jacksnipe 4y ago
I live in NYC and you’re wrong. If you are cooking with meat and you insist on buying organic, then it is cheaper to go to a food truck than to cook for one. Additionally, unless you meal plan very well, some of your ingredients are going to go bad; you can’t really purchase enough celery for just one meal.
- bpicolo 4y ago
  "Insist on buying organic" is a big qualifier. That food truck isn't cooking organic. I purchase meat in Chinatown on the regular for remarkably good prices.
  - geodel 4y ago
    There is also a great appreciation for people who cook at restaurant / food truck etc. I have cooked very decent meals for family and friends, putting great deal of effort, attention and love and all people could say was "yeah, not bad". Same people will go to restaurant eat a rather bad meal for good money but show deep respect to restaurant.
- MontyCarloHall 4y ago
  Yeah, if you’re buying wagyu, sashimi-grade fish, and heirloom vegetables, it will be more expensive per meal than a Halal Guys truck. I guarantee that it will be cheaper to cook a meal equivalent to what you get from a food truck yourself. I live in a area whose cost of living is on par with NYC, and have never seen a grocery bill to the contrary. > Additionally, unless you meal plan very well, some of your ingredients are going to go bad; you can’t really purchase enough celery for just one meal. Egg salad uses abundant amounts of celery and can last several days in the fridge. Stews and soups also use lots of celery and both freeze/defrost very well. In my experience, the hardest thing to meal plan around is fresh aromatic herbs. Hard to figure out how to use a giant bunch of fresh tarragon or mint without getting sick of it.
- kritiko 4y ago
  Is your food truck really using organic meat? The US has a very interesting food truck and street food culture. You get chefs who are saving money on rent, but the food ends up costing as much as a brick and mortar quick service restaurant. (~$15 in NYC these days, creeping up with inflation.) There's some genuine cheap food targeting service and construction workers - dollar pizza, rice and meat places, Chinatown - but you also get, for example, somebody who went to Berlin, saw döner kebabs, and now are charging $15 to make them here... I'm sympathetic to the issues of cooking for 1, but I'm skeptical that it's really cheaper to eat out and get the same quality and healthfulness that you could get from cooking.
shagie 4y ago
The cost for cooking for one becomes evident when buying meat and produce (things that aren't shelf stable) in units small enough to do meal planing without significant waste. There are things like the difference in the cost of a single, reasonable, serving of chicken. Buying a chicken breast is more expensive in price per pound than the family pack of chicken breasts or an entire chicken. Similar things with carrots (I only need 2 or 3 carrots for the meals I have in mind for the week) but instead have to buy the bag for $1 or $2 and rather than one of them for $0.10. Next there's the issue with single meal variety. Back when I was living with my family, a meal would consist of several different items - some beans, a meat dish, something else. Cooking alone I can't prepare a wide enough variety for a single meal and hope to eat it all (and have the portions be something that is healthy to eat). If I want mashed potatoes to add some variety, I can't make it in the quantity that brings down the price to that of a potato... and so I'm getting single serving cups of instant mashed potatoes. The five pound bag of potatoes is difficult to eat before things start getting funky and buying potatoes in in the "select and bag" tends to be the organic variety which is much more expensive than that 5 lb bag per unit weight. When buying meat and produce in units that a single person is going to cook before food waste occurs (and causes the effective price to go up) gets to the point where prepackaged frozen (and even weekly delivery!) meals become competitive on price and start having more of an advantage on individual serving variety.
- tempe1h1 4y ago
  the trick is to cook about one and a half servings everytime. this way you eat one serving, store the half and heat up a previously stored side dish (previously remaining half serving)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- katbyte 4y ago
  trick is to get higher quality produce, make multiple services, and lean how to store things. Cheap produce goes back quicker. I live alone yet go to Costco every 2-3 weeks and I expect everything I get to last. Meat is split up, vacpacked and frozen. produce is put in the fridge in containers that best store them: some lined with paper town, some not, some with lids, some not. I have 2 week old tomatoes peppers cucumbers romain for salad that is totally fine. Onion garlic and potatoes go in burlap in the pantry. Rice and grains are put in sealed containers. And so forth. And when I cook it’s always multiple servings. Today and tomorrows dinner, 5-10 servings of soup and I freeze most. Storing food so it keeps is a skill. 150-200$ every 2-3 weeks, much cheaper and healthier then ordering in or frozen.
thatfrenchguy 4y ago
This is not true, I’ve never been to a city in the US where cooking is more expensive.
- knicholes 4y ago
  I've been buying fresh ingredients for two years to make the recipes in my Clean Simple Eats recipe book. The shopping would sometimes take an hour, and preparing the food would take about 30 minutes a meal. They started a prepared meal service for $12 a meal, which was really pushing my limits on what I'd be willing to spend to avoid having to do all of that work and spend all of that time. Then I found the "double portion +$2" button. The food tastes similar to how I made it. But now instead of spending 30 minutes a meal, I spend 90 seconds and spend almost the same amount of $$. I don't have random scraps to fashion into meals for my kids anymore (they won't eat the diet food I make), but for now this seems like the best choice.
  - pfranz 4y ago
    I've found recipe books to be the antithesis to meal planning and time/money optimization. To me, "meal planning" is having staples at home--not sitting down on Sunday to write out 7-days worth of meals, going to multiple grocery stores to source all of the ingredients, then prepping for the week. You already know which store, the specific isle to find them, and roughly what it costs. When cooking from a recipe the whole point is that there's a bespoke ingredient or technique. Sadly, I don't think there's a lot of resources on optimizing your kitchen out there. I think because it's not clearly defined and staple foods are very cultural and personal. I do think people underestimate the upfront cost of getting the knowledge and skills to run a home kitchen. Once you do it, it's amazingly cheap compared to ordering out and the food is already there. The closest I see is reverence for grandmothers to whip something up or always have things on hand. You can vary the time/costs with your tastes; yogurt, muesli, and whatever fruit is handy or pour cereal and milk. That sounds like way less of a headache to me than going out or having something delivered. Different things work for different people at different points in their life. I'm glad when people find systems that work for them--it sounds like you have. I just advocate for a low-maintenance system for cooking at home.

abeppu 4y ago

When I lived in NYC, I felt this was often true, but my hypothesis was that it was a reflection of the real estate footprint of grocery stores. A restaurant can receive daily shipments from vendors based in the outer boroughs (or further). If I really wanted to, I could have taken the subway to Queens for grocery runs, but that wasn't actually going to happen. But the Whole Foods on Houston takes up a large footprint of valuable real estate, and of course that drives up the price of everything. The choice between cooking and eating takeout weighs the labor of the kitchen staff (ideally low in a high throughput kitchen) vs the overhead of a supply chain which uses more high-value space.

valarauko 4y ago
No need to go all the way to Queens for the groceries - just a few blocks from the Whole Foods on Houston you have the grocery stores of Chinatown, and even the produce from the street vendors is decent - and cheap.

stonemetal12 4y ago

If I go to McDonalds, I can get a hamburger for a dollar. At the grocery store I can't get the meat for a hamburger for a dollar.

buescher 4y ago
True, but you should be able to make 20 burgers for less than $20; easily if you already have condiments on hand. McDonald's burgers have 1.6 oz (1/10 lb) ground beef patties, and 80:20 ground beef is about $4/lb in most of the US.

galdosdi 4y ago

This is so true. If you actually know how to cook (and I just mean the basics that most people, or at least most women knew in the year 1900, nothing fancy) you feel gaslit constantly when you hear people talk about how hard it is to eat nutritiously and affordably. You can see this with the inflation discussion -- you can tell immediately if someone can cook by if they complain about the current inflation in the context of food or not. If you truly cook based on commodities, it's barely noticable. If you eat out or use mostly processed and premade "ingredients" with big brand names, yeah, it's a lot more expensive. What corporate america did to US food culture in the 20th century is comparable to the enclosure movement in preindustrial England. There was a common resource that belonged to and was highly valuable to all (cultural knowledge of how to prepare cheap nutritious palatable food from scratch, using time effeciently), and it was destroyed and monopolized by a small group. Crazy as it seems to those on the outside, there are entire generations of families in the USA who have inherited nothing more from their ancestors in terms of food culture than preferences for certain brands. The irony is there's never been a better time for the every day worker to be able to cook for themselves with limited time and budget, thanks to modern appliances like instant pots, dishwashers, microwaves, and freezers. A homemaker from 1900 would be flabbergasted and overjoyed. What's missing is the operational knowledge and habits.

alberth 4y ago

> I was scratching my head at how so many people in the thread could possibly believe this, until I realized that they’re probably not actually cooking, but rather buying prepackaged meals and heating them up. I don't think that's the case. When a person can have an entire dinner meal at Taco Bell for less than $5, or jumbo hot dog + drink at Costco for $1.25 ... cooking at home is definitely more expensive. https://www.tacobell.com/food https://www.tacobell.com/food

evnix 4y ago
in Ireland, as someone living alone, I spend close to 40 euros a week. 4 euros for a kilo of ground beef 4 euros for a kilo of whole chicken 7 euros for a kilo of pork and 4 to 5 euros for fish and 2 to 4 euros for rice and wraps. onions, garlic, fresh tomatoes are around a euro for a pack that's enough for a week. 5 to 10 euros for spices but they last for atleast a month. I throw in a few frozen veggies into rice which again is euro or two. I dont order or eat out, I generally do this to eat clean healthy food but the addon benefit is I notice I save a lot more when compared to my colleagues and I generally look healthier even though I eat a lot more.
MontyCarloHall 4y ago
Buy ground beef, beans, rice, and tortillas in bulk (or even cheaper, make them yourself—it’s not hard!) and be smart about planning to use vegetables and other perishables efficiently across multiple dishes, and you’re going to be making Taco Bell menu items at home that are far superior to Taco Bell for much less than $5. Buying hotdogs, buns, and soda in bulk will probably cost ~$1.25 per meal, if not less. You can freeze the dogs and buns; the latter will still taste great after a light toasting.
- ilikecakeandpie 4y ago
  There's the opportunity and comfort cost as well though. I can definitely see how one could see spending $5 on a box they can grab from the drive thru and immediately throw away is a better choice than going to the store, meal planning, ensuring there's proper refrigerator and freezer space, making sure the perishables are used, and then also taking the time to clean the dishes used afterwards. $5 for a few minutes of effort vs spending slightly less for usually at least half an hour to an hour when off hours during the work week are at a premium can make that extra spend very attractive, especially if they're single

ghaff 4y ago

If your sole metric is price, there is some very cheap takeout out there. And, yes, it may well be as cheap or cheaper than meals in the supermarket freezer section. But while some planning and a little work is needed, stick to cheaper proteins (chicken/pork), vegetables, and things like rice/beans and home cooking, even for one, can be pretty inexpensive and doesn't need to mean eating the same leftover stew for a week. I do think a lot of "cooking at home is too expensive" is actually "I don't want to cook at home and would rather just get takeout." ADDED: And especially if you relax the cost constraint a little bit, there are a ton of meals I can make from unprocessed or minimally processed frozen food in about 15 minutes from freezer to table. Less than $10 for a meal is trivial--and can be significantly less than that.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
geodel 4y ago
Well, we cook at home almost every meal throughout the year. Something I noticed compared to old country that for lot of people here each meal is always about the food they like to eat at that time. Whereas for us that likeness/preferred meal is only couple times a week or so. Most meals are really like rotation of stuff from pantry and fridge. If I were to eat only meals I feel like eating all the time it would be too much of mental hassle even if I could afford to purchase ingredients.
- solardev 4y ago
  What are the meals you don't like, and cook anyway? Why do you even stock ingredients for them then? Are they just easier to make, or?
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Not the parent, but I read it as, sometimes you're cooking the meal you want to eat tonight. Other times it's "What do I have in the house?" There definitely many times when I'm "I should use something from the freezer" or "I need to use this meat cut I bought a couple days ago."

jacksnipe 4y ago

I live in NYC and you’re wrong. If you are cooking with meat and you insist on buying organic, then it is cheaper to go to a food truck than to cook for one. Additionally, unless you meal plan very well, some of your ingredients are going to go bad; you can’t really purchase enough celery for just one meal.

bpicolo 4y ago
"Insist on buying organic" is a big qualifier. That food truck isn't cooking organic. I purchase meat in Chinatown on the regular for remarkably good prices.
- geodel 4y ago
  There is also a great appreciation for people who cook at restaurant / food truck etc. I have cooked very decent meals for family and friends, putting great deal of effort, attention and love and all people could say was "yeah, not bad". Same people will go to restaurant eat a rather bad meal for good money but show deep respect to restaurant.
MontyCarloHall 4y ago
Yeah, if you’re buying wagyu, sashimi-grade fish, and heirloom vegetables, it will be more expensive per meal than a Halal Guys truck. I guarantee that it will be cheaper to cook a meal equivalent to what you get from a food truck yourself. I live in a area whose cost of living is on par with NYC, and have never seen a grocery bill to the contrary. > Additionally, unless you meal plan very well, some of your ingredients are going to go bad; you can’t really purchase enough celery for just one meal. Egg salad uses abundant amounts of celery and can last several days in the fridge. Stews and soups also use lots of celery and both freeze/defrost very well. In my experience, the hardest thing to meal plan around is fresh aromatic herbs. Hard to figure out how to use a giant bunch of fresh tarragon or mint without getting sick of it.
kritiko 4y ago
Is your food truck really using organic meat? The US has a very interesting food truck and street food culture. You get chefs who are saving money on rent, but the food ends up costing as much as a brick and mortar quick service restaurant. (~$15 in NYC these days, creeping up with inflation.) There's some genuine cheap food targeting service and construction workers - dollar pizza, rice and meat places, Chinatown - but you also get, for example, somebody who went to Berlin, saw döner kebabs, and now are charging $15 to make them here... I'm sympathetic to the issues of cooking for 1, but I'm skeptical that it's really cheaper to eat out and get the same quality and healthfulness that you could get from cooking.

shagie 4y ago

The cost for cooking for one becomes evident when buying meat and produce (things that aren't shelf stable) in units small enough to do meal planing without significant waste. There are things like the difference in the cost of a single, reasonable, serving of chicken. Buying a chicken breast is more expensive in price per pound than the family pack of chicken breasts or an entire chicken. Similar things with carrots (I only need 2 or 3 carrots for the meals I have in mind for the week) but instead have to buy the bag for $1 or $2 and rather than one of them for $0.10. Next there's the issue with single meal variety. Back when I was living with my family, a meal would consist of several different items - some beans, a meat dish, something else. Cooking alone I can't prepare a wide enough variety for a single meal and hope to eat it all (and have the portions be something that is healthy to eat). If I want mashed potatoes to add some variety, I can't make it in the quantity that brings down the price to that of a potato... and so I'm getting single serving cups of instant mashed potatoes. The five pound bag of potatoes is difficult to eat before things start getting funky and buying potatoes in in the "select and bag" tends to be the organic variety which is much more expensive than that 5 lb bag per unit weight. When buying meat and produce in units that a single person is going to cook before food waste occurs (and causes the effective price to go up) gets to the point where prepackaged frozen (and even weekly delivery!) meals become competitive on price and start having more of an advantage on individual serving variety.

tempe1h1 4y ago
the trick is to cook about one and a half servings everytime. this way you eat one serving, store the half and heat up a previously stored side dish (previously remaining half serving)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
katbyte 4y ago
trick is to get higher quality produce, make multiple services, and lean how to store things. Cheap produce goes back quicker. I live alone yet go to Costco every 2-3 weeks and I expect everything I get to last. Meat is split up, vacpacked and frozen. produce is put in the fridge in containers that best store them: some lined with paper town, some not, some with lids, some not. I have 2 week old tomatoes peppers cucumbers romain for salad that is totally fine. Onion garlic and potatoes go in burlap in the pantry. Rice and grains are put in sealed containers. And so forth. And when I cook it’s always multiple servings. Today and tomorrows dinner, 5-10 servings of soup and I freeze most. Storing food so it keeps is a skill. 150-200$ every 2-3 weeks, much cheaper and healthier then ordering in or frozen.

thatfrenchguy 4y ago

This is not true, I’ve never been to a city in the US where cooking is more expensive.

knicholes 4y ago
I've been buying fresh ingredients for two years to make the recipes in my Clean Simple Eats recipe book. The shopping would sometimes take an hour, and preparing the food would take about 30 minutes a meal. They started a prepared meal service for $12 a meal, which was really pushing my limits on what I'd be willing to spend to avoid having to do all of that work and spend all of that time. Then I found the "double portion +$2" button. The food tastes similar to how I made it. But now instead of spending 30 minutes a meal, I spend 90 seconds and spend almost the same amount of $$. I don't have random scraps to fashion into meals for my kids anymore (they won't eat the diet food I make), but for now this seems like the best choice.
- pfranz 4y ago
  I've found recipe books to be the antithesis to meal planning and time/money optimization. To me, "meal planning" is having staples at home--not sitting down on Sunday to write out 7-days worth of meals, going to multiple grocery stores to source all of the ingredients, then prepping for the week. You already know which store, the specific isle to find them, and roughly what it costs. When cooking from a recipe the whole point is that there's a bespoke ingredient or technique. Sadly, I don't think there's a lot of resources on optimizing your kitchen out there. I think because it's not clearly defined and staple foods are very cultural and personal. I do think people underestimate the upfront cost of getting the knowledge and skills to run a home kitchen. Once you do it, it's amazingly cheap compared to ordering out and the food is already there. The closest I see is reverence for grandmothers to whip something up or always have things on hand. You can vary the time/costs with your tastes; yogurt, muesli, and whatever fruit is handy or pour cereal and milk. That sounds like way less of a headache to me than going out or having something delivered. Different things work for different people at different points in their life. I'm glad when people find systems that work for them--it sounds like you have. I just advocate for a low-maintenance system for cooking at home.