5 ms·

Ovsyannikova and Kara-Murza are not jailed, they are detained and their fate is going to be determined in court. And they are not detained for being anti-war as

by Sin2x 4y ago

Ovsyannikova and Kara-Murza are not jailed, they are detained and their fate is going to be determined in court. And they are not detained for being anti-war as you said -- they are detained for spreading misinformation -- repeatedly. Yep, just like they would be in the glorious free USA. As for the thousands of protesters being jailed -- you make the same (deliberate?) mistake again -- they are detained, not jailed. And then released with a fine. And again -- they are detained not because they are anti-war but because their protests are illegitimate -- they are not properly registered with the authorities. And guess what? It works the same way in the USA! Makes your comment look in a totally different light now, doesn't it? Oh, and if you didn't know, RFERL is directly sponsored by the US government while WaPo and NYT are covert fronts for the Democratic Party so anything you post from them should be taken with a truckload of salt. The situation in Russia right now in regards of Ukraine war is very simple -- everybody has rallied around Putin and against the West, everybody knows that this war is a proxy war against USA ands Ukraine is just an unlucky puppet. If you see some media telling you otherwise, you should know outright that it lies.

_kbh_ 4y ago
> The situation in Russia right now in regards of Ukraine war is very simple -- everybody has rallied around Putin and against the West, everybody knows that this war is a proxy war against USA ands Ukraine is just an unlucky puppet. If you see some media telling you otherwise, you should know outright that it lies. This isn’t a war against the west, it’s a war of aggression waged by Russia that is killing, torturing and raping civilians. This is a war of survival for Ukraine, if they lose they cease to exist. The Russians have repeatedly said that Ukraine isn’t a real country. The only way that this is a war against the west is that the west is supplying Ukraine against the genocidal Russian army.
boplicity 4y ago
Thank you for the insight into Russian thinking. What are your thoughts in terms of how the war started?
- Sin2x 4y ago
  I would point you to the excellent lecture of John Mearsheimer on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 But the whole conundrum started much earlier, in my understanding, when western elites realized that Putin is not going to dance to their tune as readily as Eltsin did and wants Russia to be truly sovereign. The timeline of proxy warfare would start with 2003 Rose revolution in Georgia, then 2004 Orange revolution in Ukraine, then Putin's Munich speech in 2007, then Ukraine coup in 2014 and subsequent retaliation of Russia by taking Crimea and then today. In the interim Russia also meddled with Syria but that's far enough from Russian border to disregard as irrelevant to the Ukraine situation where Ukraine is right on the border of Russia. It's the second Cuban crisis basically. USA created a puppet state on Russian border and Russia obviously doesn't want that. Ideas that Russia wants to conquer Europe or restore USSR are idiotic and paranoid. What Russia wants is for US/NATO to get the heck away from its borders -- as was promised when USSR dissolved. https://www.vox.com/22900113/nato-ukraine-russia-crisis-clinton-expansion https://www.vox.com/22900113/nato-ukraine-russia-crisis-clin...
  - boplicity 4y ago
    Interesting. Do most Russians believe this? Are they concerned at all about the mass atrocities committed by Russian in Ukraine?
    - Sin2x 4y ago
      Everybody in my circle does. I am not aware of any real non-staged (like Bucha) atrocities commited by Russian forces while I do know of such perpetrated by Ukrainians -- at least three instances of torturing and killing POWs and the literally daily shelling of Donetsk and surrounding area. If you are, do enlighten me. Oh, and Ovsyannikova was fined again this week for ~$800, that's the extent of "anti-war oppression" in Russia. I find it rather suspicious that you did not mention the lecture in your reply -- have you watched the video? Any thoughts?
  - _kbh_ 4y ago
    > then Ukraine coup in 2014 You mean when the pro Russian puppet was ousted for going back on joining the EU and ran away to his masters in Russia?. > Ideas that Russia wants to conquer Europe or restore USSR are idiotic and paranoid. Then the Russians are idiotic and paranoid because it’s pretty much the exact rhetoric that they are putting out. They keep saying they can take Poland if they want to and that Poland is next, if that’s not about the USSR what is it about?. > What Russia wants is for US/NATO to get the heck away from its borders -- as was promised when USSR dissolved. This was a promise that was never made.

by Sin2x 4y ago

_kbh_ 4y ago

> The situation in Russia right now in regards of Ukraine war is very simple -- everybody has rallied around Putin and against the West, everybody knows that this war is a proxy war against USA ands Ukraine is just an unlucky puppet. If you see some media telling you otherwise, you should know outright that it lies. This isn’t a war against the west, it’s a war of aggression waged by Russia that is killing, torturing and raping civilians. This is a war of survival for Ukraine, if they lose they cease to exist. The Russians have repeatedly said that Ukraine isn’t a real country. The only way that this is a war against the west is that the west is supplying Ukraine against the genocidal Russian army.

boplicity 4y ago

Thank you for the insight into Russian thinking. What are your thoughts in terms of how the war started?

Sin2x 4y ago
I would point you to the excellent lecture of John Mearsheimer on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 But the whole conundrum started much earlier, in my understanding, when western elites realized that Putin is not going to dance to their tune as readily as Eltsin did and wants Russia to be truly sovereign. The timeline of proxy warfare would start with 2003 Rose revolution in Georgia, then 2004 Orange revolution in Ukraine, then Putin's Munich speech in 2007, then Ukraine coup in 2014 and subsequent retaliation of Russia by taking Crimea and then today. In the interim Russia also meddled with Syria but that's far enough from Russian border to disregard as irrelevant to the Ukraine situation where Ukraine is right on the border of Russia. It's the second Cuban crisis basically. USA created a puppet state on Russian border and Russia obviously doesn't want that. Ideas that Russia wants to conquer Europe or restore USSR are idiotic and paranoid. What Russia wants is for US/NATO to get the heck away from its borders -- as was promised when USSR dissolved. https://www.vox.com/22900113/nato-ukraine-russia-crisis-clinton-expansion https://www.vox.com/22900113/nato-ukraine-russia-crisis-clin...
- boplicity 4y ago
  Interesting. Do most Russians believe this? Are they concerned at all about the mass atrocities committed by Russian in Ukraine?
  - Sin2x 4y ago
    Everybody in my circle does. I am not aware of any real non-staged (like Bucha) atrocities commited by Russian forces while I do know of such perpetrated by Ukrainians -- at least three instances of torturing and killing POWs and the literally daily shelling of Donetsk and surrounding area. If you are, do enlighten me. Oh, and Ovsyannikova was fined again this week for ~$800, that's the extent of "anti-war oppression" in Russia. I find it rather suspicious that you did not mention the lecture in your reply -- have you watched the video? Any thoughts?
- _kbh_ 4y ago
  > then Ukraine coup in 2014 You mean when the pro Russian puppet was ousted for going back on joining the EU and ran away to his masters in Russia?. > Ideas that Russia wants to conquer Europe or restore USSR are idiotic and paranoid. Then the Russians are idiotic and paranoid because it’s pretty much the exact rhetoric that they are putting out. They keep saying they can take Poland if they want to and that Poland is next, if that’s not about the USSR what is it about?. > What Russia wants is for US/NATO to get the heck away from its borders -- as was promised when USSR dissolved. This was a promise that was never made.