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Crypto is a closed economy. The only way to get USD out is by taking that USD ("wealth") from somebody else who is buying in.

davidguetta 4y ago
But this is true for any currency
- throwawaymaths 4y ago
  No you can also take usd out by printing it, which disproportionately screws the poor.
- mikeyouse 4y ago
  Nah. With ‘real’ currencies, goods and services are available in that currency. I can happily go about my business and transaction entirely in euros if I’m in the EU.
  - davidguetta 4y ago
    So what about gold ? I'm waiting for your vlog where you go buy a starbuck with a pound of physical gold and they give you change. The point is that when there's liquidity smoewhere (on an exchange), any security have "de facto" act as a "money", or at least a "saving account", because there's always at all an actual value defined by the market. whether it's stock, crypto etc... It doesn't have in practive to be tied to a central bank / governement. Even historically, currencies have existed well before someone tried to regulate them
  - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
    This again? Did you miss the last 47 threads where people discussed the real world goods and services they purchase with cryptocurrency?
    - mikeyouse 4y ago
      "Entirely" is the keyword.. there are certainly a lot of things you can buy with crypto, but at some point you need to convert it to a 'real' currency to pay for food or gas or server costs or whatever. And if you find a service that lets you buy food with crypto, eventually they will need to pay their suppliers with 'real' money. Everyone needs to keep track of the btc/USD (or whatever coin) exchange rate to ensure there are enough 'real' dollars or euros or whatever at the end of the day. It's a super hard thing to bootstrap a currency, much easier with the force of the state, I doubt there will ever be a truly competitive crypto.
      - kayamon 4y ago
        > but at some point you need to convert it to a 'real' currency to pay for food or gas or server costs or whatever. No you don't. > And if you find a service that lets you buy food with crypto, eventually they will need to pay their suppliers with 'real' money. No they don't.
- tatersolid 4y ago
  In “real” currency labor is compensated by wages, resulting in a net increase of collective wealth. Building a house generates a net increase in wealth overall; there is “more there” than there was before. Cryptocurrencies do not share this property. They are zero-sum, which is a hallmark of a Ponzi scheme.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  That's why currency is not normally treated as an investment. Meanwhile investments like equities have the property that the thing being owned actually makes stuff. Bitcoin seems to be the worst of both worlds.
golergka 4y ago
That's not true. Cryptocurrencies provide value by enabling you to make transactions, and as their usage increases, so does their usability for doing transactions, and so does their value.

davidguetta 4y ago

But this is true for any currency

throwawaymaths 4y ago
No you can also take usd out by printing it, which disproportionately screws the poor.
mikeyouse 4y ago
Nah. With ‘real’ currencies, goods and services are available in that currency. I can happily go about my business and transaction entirely in euros if I’m in the EU.
- davidguetta 4y ago
  So what about gold ? I'm waiting for your vlog where you go buy a starbuck with a pound of physical gold and they give you change. The point is that when there's liquidity smoewhere (on an exchange), any security have "de facto" act as a "money", or at least a "saving account", because there's always at all an actual value defined by the market. whether it's stock, crypto etc... It doesn't have in practive to be tied to a central bank / governement. Even historically, currencies have existed well before someone tried to regulate them
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
  This again? Did you miss the last 47 threads where people discussed the real world goods and services they purchase with cryptocurrency?
  - mikeyouse 4y ago
    "Entirely" is the keyword.. there are certainly a lot of things you can buy with crypto, but at some point you need to convert it to a 'real' currency to pay for food or gas or server costs or whatever. And if you find a service that lets you buy food with crypto, eventually they will need to pay their suppliers with 'real' money. Everyone needs to keep track of the btc/USD (or whatever coin) exchange rate to ensure there are enough 'real' dollars or euros or whatever at the end of the day. It's a super hard thing to bootstrap a currency, much easier with the force of the state, I doubt there will ever be a truly competitive crypto.
    - kayamon 4y ago
      > but at some point you need to convert it to a 'real' currency to pay for food or gas or server costs or whatever. No you don't. > And if you find a service that lets you buy food with crypto, eventually they will need to pay their suppliers with 'real' money. No they don't.
tatersolid 4y ago
In “real” currency labor is compensated by wages, resulting in a net increase of collective wealth. Building a house generates a net increase in wealth overall; there is “more there” than there was before. Cryptocurrencies do not share this property. They are zero-sum, which is a hallmark of a Ponzi scheme.
AlexandrB 4y ago
That's why currency is not normally treated as an investment. Meanwhile investments like equities have the property that the thing being owned actually makes stuff. Bitcoin seems to be the worst of both worlds.

golergka 4y ago

That's not true. Cryptocurrencies provide value by enabling you to make transactions, and as their usage increases, so does their usability for doing transactions, and so does their value.