4 ms·

Culturally, Israelis only value privacy in very narrow contexts that are carved out and afforded protection in law (reputational and medical privacy). This is a

Culturally, Israelis only value privacy in very narrow contexts that are carved out and afforded protection in law (reputational and medical privacy). This is a country where there are security guards who open your bags before you can enter public places like government offices, malls, and public transit terminals, and airport security at Ben Gurion is world-famous for its invasiveness. Israelis accept this because Ben Franklin's quote about liberty and security falls on deaf ears here. To Israelis, security is a pre-requisite for liberty, not the other way around, and there is wide public support for measures that would be completely DOA in the US, like government identity registries (that now include facial scans and fingerprint databases, with fingerprinting admittedly optional but fingerprinting extends the validity period of issued identification) and extremely strict gun control. Financial security is pretty much the same, for example, most of the Israeli drug trade links back to terrorist organizations and as such a "war on cash" is seen by many as fighting against terrorists as well.

selimthegrim 4y ago
Franklin’s quote was about liberty (of the legislature) to tax so it is even more apposite here
Jalad 4y ago
> Ben Franklin's quote about liberty and security Although the rest of your point stands, this part is a common misconception. The exact context of the quote was about a taxation dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the Penn family, and didn't actually have much to do with modern day liberty or security[0]. [0] https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famou...
noduerme 4y ago
Right. These would be DOA in America because our distrust of centralized power largely outweighs our fear of invasion or terrorism. The biggest gains of the police state in the US have all been in the wake of wars or terror attacks (or in the name of pseudo-"wars" like the war on drugs), And this is perfectly predictable. But even given the long history of Israel's status as a besieged military state on the constant defensive, is this really the direction you want to see it go in the future? Because it seems to me that this is a path toward Chinese-style totalitarianism, where once someone flips a switch and democracy fails there would be no going back. Are you that certain that these kinds of measures should be scaled up and up?
- mellavora 4y ago
  > These would be DOA in America because our distrust of centralized power largely outweighs our fear of invasion or terrorism. Federal law requires a person to report cash transactions of more than $10,000 by filing IRS Form 8300PDF, Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000 Received in a Trade or Business. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/cash-payment-report-helps-government-combat-money-laundering https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/cash-payment-report-helps-gover... See also https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/CTRPamphlet.pdf https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/CTRPamphle... Federal law requires financial institutions to report currency (cash or coin) transactions over $10,000 conducted by, or on behalf of, one person, as well as multiple currency transactions that aggregate to be over $10,000 in a single day And finally remember civil forfeiture implies carrying "large" amounts of cash risks police seizing the cash with very limited recourse. So no, not DOA in the US, rather already existing in the US but in a more sly format
  - noduerme 4y ago
    I'd argue there's a big difference between a law which requires reporting a transaction and one which criminalizes it. I have no problem reporting large cash transactions. I do have a problem keeping all my money in electronic accounts that can be vaporized by government fiat, hacking, bank insolvency, clerical error, EMP, etc.
- sofixa 4y ago
  > These would be DOA in America because our distrust of centralized power largely outweighs our fear of invasion or terrorism What about organized crime? You have one of the, if not the worst crime rates in the developed world.
  - blfr 4y ago
    Most of the crime that affects Americans is not really organized though.
  - jimmykru 4y ago
    Where do you get your data? According to [1] Israel's crime rate is 105/135 (higher is worse). It's better than Norway and worse than China. USA, by comparison, is 56, which is worse than Ghana, Egypt and Lebanon (but better than Sweden and Iraq). [1] - https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rat...

selimthegrim 4y ago

Franklin’s quote was about liberty (of the legislature) to tax so it is even more apposite here

Jalad 4y ago

> Ben Franklin's quote about liberty and security Although the rest of your point stands, this part is a common misconception. The exact context of the quote was about a taxation dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the Penn family, and didn't actually have much to do with modern day liberty or security[0]. [0] https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famou...

noduerme 4y ago

Right. These would be DOA in America because our distrust of centralized power largely outweighs our fear of invasion or terrorism. The biggest gains of the police state in the US have all been in the wake of wars or terror attacks (or in the name of pseudo-"wars" like the war on drugs), And this is perfectly predictable. But even given the long history of Israel's status as a besieged military state on the constant defensive, is this really the direction you want to see it go in the future? Because it seems to me that this is a path toward Chinese-style totalitarianism, where once someone flips a switch and democracy fails there would be no going back. Are you that certain that these kinds of measures should be scaled up and up?

mellavora 4y ago
> These would be DOA in America because our distrust of centralized power largely outweighs our fear of invasion or terrorism. Federal law requires a person to report cash transactions of more than $10,000 by filing IRS Form 8300PDF, Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000 Received in a Trade or Business. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/cash-payment-report-helps-government-combat-money-laundering https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/cash-payment-report-helps-gover... See also https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/CTRPamphlet.pdf https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/CTRPamphle... Federal law requires financial institutions to report currency (cash or coin) transactions over $10,000 conducted by, or on behalf of, one person, as well as multiple currency transactions that aggregate to be over $10,000 in a single day And finally remember civil forfeiture implies carrying "large" amounts of cash risks police seizing the cash with very limited recourse. So no, not DOA in the US, rather already existing in the US but in a more sly format
- noduerme 4y ago
  I'd argue there's a big difference between a law which requires reporting a transaction and one which criminalizes it. I have no problem reporting large cash transactions. I do have a problem keeping all my money in electronic accounts that can be vaporized by government fiat, hacking, bank insolvency, clerical error, EMP, etc.
sofixa 4y ago
> These would be DOA in America because our distrust of centralized power largely outweighs our fear of invasion or terrorism What about organized crime? You have one of the, if not the worst crime rates in the developed world.
- blfr 4y ago
  Most of the crime that affects Americans is not really organized though.
- jimmykru 4y ago
  Where do you get your data? According to [1] Israel's crime rate is 105/135 (higher is worse). It's better than Norway and worse than China. USA, by comparison, is 56, which is worse than Ghana, Egypt and Lebanon (but better than Sweden and Iraq). [1] - https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rat...