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> Maybe this scenario is exaggerated, but carbon tax credit and restricting purchases inbound. It's funny, in context, because Israel is the largest per-capita

> Maybe this scenario is exaggerated, but carbon tax credit and restricting purchases inbound. It's funny, in context, because Israel is the largest per-capita consumer of single-use plastics in the world, driven by a religious public that uses single-use plastic to help comply with religious dietary law. Attempts have been made to implement taxation of single-use plastic, but have failed because of entrenched religious party members in the government. And crickets don't comply with Jewish dietary law. The truth is more mundane. When finding plumbers, movers, painters, etc. it is quite common to be quoted a price "without VAT", which is code for "pay in cash, don't request a receipt, and we won't charge you the additional 17%, thus also permitting them to underreport income.

2Gkashmiri 4y ago
india does the same thing.... there is an entire world of unregulated cash economy which does not care about indirect taxes. >plumbers, movers, painters, etc unless you are quite big, you are not required to get registered with the tax department and as such, you dont collect taxes on your sales from customers.
- carl_dr 4y ago
  In Israel, the threshold is low : 100000 NIS, about $29k, and that's revenue, not profit. As a reference point, the minimum wage in Israel is 60,000 NIS, so adding expenses and buying parts/consumables/fittings etc on behalf of your customers onto that, most contractors would reach that threshold quickly. I can see why the contractors are keen to stay below the threshold, and why the government is keen to restrict cash usage (they are gaining 17% sales tax as well as income tax.)
  - 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
    alright. in india, for a "service provider", the threshold is inr 20 lacs or $25000. daily wages is at best inr 7-900 or $10-12. the threshold is calculated on the "bank deposits" so people simply collect cash and don't route it through the banks. that way, people can avoid reaching the limit for quite some time...
ars 4y ago
> driven by a religious public that uses single-use plastic to help comply with religious dietary law Say what now? As someone who knows this religious dietary law quite well, I have never heard of this ever. In addition you have to pay for each bag in the supermarket in Israel, those disposable bags are not free, so I really doubt they are wasting them that way. https://www.gov.il/en/departments/news/decrease_of_74_percent_in_plastic_bags_consumption_in_2019 https://www.gov.il/en/departments/news/decrease_of_74_percen...
- solatic 4y ago
  Source: https://m.calcalistech.com/Article.aspx?guid=3741791 https://m.calcalistech.com/Article.aspx?guid=3741791
  - ars 4y ago
    Did you read your own source? There is zero connection to anything religious. Only convenience. And this article is from 2018, in 2019 they passed laws that dramatically reduced plastic waste.
    - solatic 4y ago
      Quote: > Much of the consumption of disposable tableware in Israel can be linked to the country’s ultra-orthodox population. Netanel Leifer, an editor for online magazine Kikar Hashabat, which caters to ultra-orthodox readers, told Calcalist that ultra-orthodox neighborhoods have hundreds of disposables stores. “For every convenient store, there is a store selling disposable tableware. It is very common,” he said. Sure, the article gets into the convenience aspect of it, but for religious consumers, single-use plastics help tremendously with simply avoiding issues of cross-contamination of dairy and meat. Synagogues hosting light refreshments and meals do not need to maintain kitchens with strict supervision when there are no dishes to be washed, and neighbors who bring food over do not need to worry about whether their dishes were mistakenly used or washed incorrectly (i.e. households that keep separate meat/dairy sinks) if there are no dishes to return. If you want a more recent source, feel free: https://www.ynet.co.il/environment-science/article/sjzqqpxco https://www.ynet.co.il/environment-science/article/sjzqqpxco (Hebrew). Two years after that initial attempt in 2019, there's still 1.3 billion NIS spent per year on nearly 70,000 tons of single-use plastic, with more than 1/3 the population using single-use plastic on a daily basis and more than half using single-use plastic cups for drinking water from home/office cold water dispensers.
selfhoster11 4y ago
> And crickets don't comply with Jewish dietary law. If you mean specifically the religious law, then locusts/grasshoppers are the only kind of insect permitted to eat (see Leviticus 11:20-23). Ancient prophets consumed them too.
- solatic 4y ago
  Most modern rabbinical authorities forbid them. Source: https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/4624319/jewish/Why-Are-Grasshoppers-Locusts-Kosher-for-Some-Jews.htm https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/4624319/jewis...
  - selfhoster11 4y ago
    I've read the same article. The fact remains that it's not a blanket ban. If you could figure out which species are kosher and limit production to just these for kosher products, they would be perfectly fine as far as the religious law is concerned.
    - solatic 4y ago
      > If you could figure out which species are kosher Therein lies the crux. How do you figure out which modern-day species were the ones that are referred to in the biblical source? Many religious followers would prefer to act out of an abundance of caution and simply not partake.
smileybarry 4y ago
> [...]it is quite common to be quoted a price "without VAT", which is code for "pay in cash, don't request a receipt, and we won't charge you the additional 17%[...] It's also annoyingly used to quote one price and then "oh but you also need to add VAT", sidestepping the law that requires prices always be specified with VAT. (A store is not allowed to advertise a VAT-less price and then charge VAT afterwards, the price you see is the price you pay, they must deduct VAT)

2Gkashmiri 4y ago

india does the same thing.... there is an entire world of unregulated cash economy which does not care about indirect taxes. >plumbers, movers, painters, etc unless you are quite big, you are not required to get registered with the tax department and as such, you dont collect taxes on your sales from customers.

carl_dr 4y ago
In Israel, the threshold is low : 100000 NIS, about $29k, and that's revenue, not profit. As a reference point, the minimum wage in Israel is 60,000 NIS, so adding expenses and buying parts/consumables/fittings etc on behalf of your customers onto that, most contractors would reach that threshold quickly. I can see why the contractors are keen to stay below the threshold, and why the government is keen to restrict cash usage (they are gaining 17% sales tax as well as income tax.)
- 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
  alright. in india, for a "service provider", the threshold is inr 20 lacs or $25000. daily wages is at best inr 7-900 or $10-12. the threshold is calculated on the "bank deposits" so people simply collect cash and don't route it through the banks. that way, people can avoid reaching the limit for quite some time...

ars 4y ago

> driven by a religious public that uses single-use plastic to help comply with religious dietary law Say what now? As someone who knows this religious dietary law quite well, I have never heard of this ever. In addition you have to pay for each bag in the supermarket in Israel, those disposable bags are not free, so I really doubt they are wasting them that way. https://www.gov.il/en/departments/news/decrease_of_74_percent_in_plastic_bags_consumption_in_2019 https://www.gov.il/en/departments/news/decrease_of_74_percen...

solatic 4y ago
Source: https://m.calcalistech.com/Article.aspx?guid=3741791 https://m.calcalistech.com/Article.aspx?guid=3741791
- ars 4y ago
  Did you read your own source? There is zero connection to anything religious. Only convenience. And this article is from 2018, in 2019 they passed laws that dramatically reduced plastic waste.
  - solatic 4y ago
    Quote: > Much of the consumption of disposable tableware in Israel can be linked to the country’s ultra-orthodox population. Netanel Leifer, an editor for online magazine Kikar Hashabat, which caters to ultra-orthodox readers, told Calcalist that ultra-orthodox neighborhoods have hundreds of disposables stores. “For every convenient store, there is a store selling disposable tableware. It is very common,” he said. Sure, the article gets into the convenience aspect of it, but for religious consumers, single-use plastics help tremendously with simply avoiding issues of cross-contamination of dairy and meat. Synagogues hosting light refreshments and meals do not need to maintain kitchens with strict supervision when there are no dishes to be washed, and neighbors who bring food over do not need to worry about whether their dishes were mistakenly used or washed incorrectly (i.e. households that keep separate meat/dairy sinks) if there are no dishes to return. If you want a more recent source, feel free: https://www.ynet.co.il/environment-science/article/sjzqqpxco https://www.ynet.co.il/environment-science/article/sjzqqpxco (Hebrew). Two years after that initial attempt in 2019, there's still 1.3 billion NIS spent per year on nearly 70,000 tons of single-use plastic, with more than 1/3 the population using single-use plastic on a daily basis and more than half using single-use plastic cups for drinking water from home/office cold water dispensers.

selfhoster11 4y ago

> And crickets don't comply with Jewish dietary law. If you mean specifically the religious law, then locusts/grasshoppers are the only kind of insect permitted to eat (see Leviticus 11:20-23). Ancient prophets consumed them too.

solatic 4y ago
Most modern rabbinical authorities forbid them. Source: https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/4624319/jewish/Why-Are-Grasshoppers-Locusts-Kosher-for-Some-Jews.htm https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/4624319/jewis...
- selfhoster11 4y ago
  I've read the same article. The fact remains that it's not a blanket ban. If you could figure out which species are kosher and limit production to just these for kosher products, they would be perfectly fine as far as the religious law is concerned.
  - solatic 4y ago
    > If you could figure out which species are kosher Therein lies the crux. How do you figure out which modern-day species were the ones that are referred to in the biblical source? Many religious followers would prefer to act out of an abundance of caution and simply not partake.

smileybarry 4y ago

> [...]it is quite common to be quoted a price "without VAT", which is code for "pay in cash, don't request a receipt, and we won't charge you the additional 17%[...] It's also annoyingly used to quote one price and then "oh but you also need to add VAT", sidestepping the law that requires prices always be specified with VAT. (A store is not allowed to advertise a VAT-less price and then charge VAT afterwards, the price you see is the price you pay, they must deduct VAT)