4 ms·

Surprised to find this on the front page of HN. Note that the current law already forbids cash transactions higher than 11,000 NIS and that an exception is car

Surprised to find this on the front page of HN. Note that the current law already forbids cash transactions higher than 11,000 NIS and that an exception is carved out for automobile purchases. This law is tightening screws that already exist, not implementing new screws.

kelnos 4y ago
I hadn't heard of this before today, and I think the same is probably true for many other people, so I found it interesting and notable.
noisy_boy 4y ago
Maybe it is beneficial for the knowledge of those who didn't know about the original screws in the first place.
brigandish 4y ago
Why is an insidious erosion of rights and liberties better than a sudden one, and why does that (if that's why, it's unclear) make it surprising to find on the front page?
- solatic 4y ago
  Culturally, Israelis only value privacy in very narrow contexts that are carved out and afforded protection in law (reputational and medical privacy). This is a country where there are security guards who open your bags before you can enter public places like government offices, malls, and public transit terminals, and airport security at Ben Gurion is world-famous for its invasiveness. Israelis accept this because Ben Franklin's quote about liberty and security falls on deaf ears here. To Israelis, security is a pre-requisite for liberty, not the other way around, and there is wide public support for measures that would be completely DOA in the US, like government identity registries (that now include facial scans and fingerprint databases, with fingerprinting admittedly optional but fingerprinting extends the validity period of issued identification) and extremely strict gun control. Financial security is pretty much the same, for example, most of the Israeli drug trade links back to terrorist organizations and as such a "war on cash" is seen by many as fighting against terrorists as well.
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    Franklin’s quote was about liberty (of the legislature) to tax so it is even more apposite here
  - Jalad 4y ago
    > Ben Franklin's quote about liberty and security Although the rest of your point stands, this part is a common misconception. The exact context of the quote was about a taxation dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the Penn family, and didn't actually have much to do with modern day liberty or security[0]. [0] https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famou...
  - noduerme 4y ago
    Right. These would be DOA in America because our distrust of centralized power largely outweighs our fear of invasion or terrorism. The biggest gains of the police state in the US have all been in the wake of wars or terror attacks (or in the name of pseudo-"wars" like the war on drugs), And this is perfectly predictable. But even given the long history of Israel's status as a besieged military state on the constant defensive, is this really the direction you want to see it go in the future? Because it seems to me that this is a path toward Chinese-style totalitarianism, where once someone flips a switch and democracy fails there would be no going back. Are you that certain that these kinds of measures should be scaled up and up?
    - mellavora 4y ago
      > These would be DOA in America because our distrust of centralized power largely outweighs our fear of invasion or terrorism. Federal law requires a person to report cash transactions of more than $10,000 by filing IRS Form 8300PDF, Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000 Received in a Trade or Business. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/cash-payment-report-helps-government-combat-money-laundering https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/cash-payment-report-helps-gover... See also https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/CTRPamphlet.pdf https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/CTRPamphle... Federal law requires financial institutions to report currency (cash or coin) transactions over $10,000 conducted by, or on behalf of, one person, as well as multiple currency transactions that aggregate to be over $10,000 in a single day And finally remember civil forfeiture implies carrying "large" amounts of cash risks police seizing the cash with very limited recourse. So no, not DOA in the US, rather already existing in the US but in a more sly format
samizdis 4y ago
I'm sure that I am missing something obvious here, but why are car purchases exempt from the threshold reduction? Dealers/dealerships must come under an awful lot of regulatory scrutiny - or pressure from elements keen to keep transactions private. Or maybe the exception applies to only person-to-person sales, and not buinesses.
- solatic 4y ago
  Basically a political carve-out for the only reason "most" people would need to handle such a large amount of cash.
oarsinsync 4y ago
In other news, they also plan to raise minimum wage to NIS 6000 by 2025. This effectively mandates electronic banking for all full time salaried workers by 2025.

kelnos 4y ago

I hadn't heard of this before today, and I think the same is probably true for many other people, so I found it interesting and notable.

noisy_boy 4y ago

Maybe it is beneficial for the knowledge of those who didn't know about the original screws in the first place.

brigandish 4y ago

Why is an insidious erosion of rights and liberties better than a sudden one, and why does that (if that's why, it's unclear) make it surprising to find on the front page?

solatic 4y ago
Culturally, Israelis only value privacy in very narrow contexts that are carved out and afforded protection in law (reputational and medical privacy). This is a country where there are security guards who open your bags before you can enter public places like government offices, malls, and public transit terminals, and airport security at Ben Gurion is world-famous for its invasiveness. Israelis accept this because Ben Franklin's quote about liberty and security falls on deaf ears here. To Israelis, security is a pre-requisite for liberty, not the other way around, and there is wide public support for measures that would be completely DOA in the US, like government identity registries (that now include facial scans and fingerprint databases, with fingerprinting admittedly optional but fingerprinting extends the validity period of issued identification) and extremely strict gun control. Financial security is pretty much the same, for example, most of the Israeli drug trade links back to terrorist organizations and as such a "war on cash" is seen by many as fighting against terrorists as well.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  Franklin’s quote was about liberty (of the legislature) to tax so it is even more apposite here
- Jalad 4y ago
  > Ben Franklin's quote about liberty and security Although the rest of your point stands, this part is a common misconception. The exact context of the quote was about a taxation dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the Penn family, and didn't actually have much to do with modern day liberty or security[0]. [0] https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famou...
- noduerme 4y ago
  Right. These would be DOA in America because our distrust of centralized power largely outweighs our fear of invasion or terrorism. The biggest gains of the police state in the US have all been in the wake of wars or terror attacks (or in the name of pseudo-"wars" like the war on drugs), And this is perfectly predictable. But even given the long history of Israel's status as a besieged military state on the constant defensive, is this really the direction you want to see it go in the future? Because it seems to me that this is a path toward Chinese-style totalitarianism, where once someone flips a switch and democracy fails there would be no going back. Are you that certain that these kinds of measures should be scaled up and up?
  - mellavora 4y ago
    > These would be DOA in America because our distrust of centralized power largely outweighs our fear of invasion or terrorism. Federal law requires a person to report cash transactions of more than $10,000 by filing IRS Form 8300PDF, Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000 Received in a Trade or Business. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/cash-payment-report-helps-government-combat-money-laundering https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/cash-payment-report-helps-gover... See also https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/CTRPamphlet.pdf https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/CTRPamphle... Federal law requires financial institutions to report currency (cash or coin) transactions over $10,000 conducted by, or on behalf of, one person, as well as multiple currency transactions that aggregate to be over $10,000 in a single day And finally remember civil forfeiture implies carrying "large" amounts of cash risks police seizing the cash with very limited recourse. So no, not DOA in the US, rather already existing in the US but in a more sly format

samizdis 4y ago

I'm sure that I am missing something obvious here, but why are car purchases exempt from the threshold reduction? Dealers/dealerships must come under an awful lot of regulatory scrutiny - or pressure from elements keen to keep transactions private. Or maybe the exception applies to only person-to-person sales, and not buinesses.

solatic 4y ago
Basically a political carve-out for the only reason "most" people would need to handle such a large amount of cash.

oarsinsync 4y ago

In other news, they also plan to raise minimum wage to NIS 6000 by 2025. This effectively mandates electronic banking for all full time salaried workers by 2025.