7 ms·

It didn't flummox the US. It flummoxed Miramax, which is what the article is saying. Miramax wanted Mononoke Hime to be a 90s Disney film, and when they couldn'

by madrox 4y ago

It didn't flummox the US. It flummoxed Miramax, which is what the article is saying. Miramax wanted Mononoke Hime to be a 90s Disney film, and when they couldn't cut the film into one, they gave up on it. It really highlights how badly Hollywood used to gatekeep entertainment by owning the distribution tools. You can thank Netflix for changing that. I worked in Hollywood when Netflix rolled out House of Cards, and it was nothing less than a revolution for the execs at the time. Netflix terrified them. Before then, every entrenched name in Hollywood mocked the internet as something consumers would never prefer for movies. However, Netflix created a place for big budget, niche content in a way that forced Hollywood to sit up and take notice. If Netflix hadn't happened, nothing would've changed. And thank God. I remember seeing Mononoke Hime in the theater, and it was my first introduction to anime. It was a breath of fresh air for me in terms of entertainment. I was so tired of western film at that point and it made me aware that there was so much more out there if I was willing to look for it. Nowadays, it hardly requires looking.

hammyhavoc 4y ago
I had the exact same experience with Mononoke Hime. It piqued my interest in the rest of the world as a kid. I started importing a lot of media globally after that, and made some life-long friends at various record and comic book stores around the world, who to this day still help me get my grubby little mitts on physical-only releases. People may also forget that Netflix and similar offered DVD rentals and purchases via mail prior to streaming. That's not to be underestimated in how important it was to a significant demographic, being able to access culture they otherwise would not have been able to due to cost or scarcity. It's a good time for cultural accessibility.
tjr225 4y ago
Princess Mononoke is one of my favorite movies of all time but Netflix is more or less straight up garbage. Even their flagship offerings like Stranger Things are creatively bankrupt references for bored millennial parents.
- me_me_me 4y ago
  Netflix has many good interesting shows, however they have a habit of cancelling them.
- madrox 4y ago
  Perhaps, but I don't think you could argue that how things were 20 years ago was better.
  - tjr225 4y ago
    At least we had stuff like princess Mononoke!
- mcphage 4y ago
  Studio Ghibli doesn’t scale well.
  - _ofdw 4y ago
    Perhaps not everything needs to "scale".
    - dylan604 4y ago
      This needs to be a motivational poster hung up in everyone's office. I'm trying to think up which generic imagery the block font should be on top.
      - _ofdw 4y ago
        Wasabi?
      - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
        The Mona Lisa.
      - mcphage 4y ago
        Campbell's Soup Cans?
PuppyTailWags 4y ago
> how badly Hollywood used to gatekeep entertainment Hollywood still gatekeeps.
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  I don't know you can keep blaming Hollywood. I've been watching english subtitled shows for decades. Before high speed internet was affordable, people were sharing fan subbed anime. Dudes at university would show up with their RAIDs with multiple seasons worth of anime. Back then we still measured RAM in megabytes. Things have only gotten easier to watch.
  - benreesman 4y ago
    Eh for awhile my Apple TV was starting to seem like the asymptotic limit of how easy it could be to watch what I wanted at the price of subsidizing a bunch of empty suits in Hollywood. Then at some point everyone with an IP catalog started launching a streaming service and at the rate it’s going I might re-learn how piracy works because I value my own time enough to be pretty much over trying to figure out if my show du jour is on Disney Plus or Viacom Prime.
  - madrox 4y ago
    I think we're both seeing a generational difference here. Those of us who remember those times know in our bones how much better things are...even if you don't want to look that hard. That was 15+ years ago. A lot of HN probably wasn't around to remember. I don't want this to be a "kids today don't know how good they have it" post, but that's playing a role. However, that attitude is probably what's going to keep driving things to get even better.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - newbie2020 4y ago
    Yeah but that’s illegal
AceJohnny2 4y ago
> It flummoxed Miramax It flummoxed Harvey Weinstein! May that creep rot in prison.
- cam_l 4y ago
  Apparently, (perhaps apocryphally), Miyazaki sent him a Katana with the message 'no cuts' to his masterpiece. I like to think whoever received it kept it to perhaps, if the opportunity presented itself, make some cuts to Weinstein's masterpiece.
  - styluss 4y ago
    Seems like it was a producer that sent it. https://www.polygon.com/animation-cartoons/2020/5/26/21270413/princess-mononoke-hayao-miyazaki-movies-harvey-weinstein-katana-story-studio-ghibli https://www.polygon.com/animation-cartoons/2020/5/26/2127041...
    - cam_l 4y ago
      Thanks for finding that! I remembered hearing Miyazaki talk about it in a docco, but couldn't confirm the details. It's amazing how, once it gets some legs, it is so hard to find anything but the same repeated story.
dylan604 4y ago
>Before then, every entrenched name in Hollywood mocked the internet as something consumers would never prefer for movies. This was a big misjudgement in thinking that people cared more about the theatrical experience than just the consumption of the content. Going to the movies became a chore, which allowed for those "niche" theaters that sold tickets while allowing the specific seat to be selected, better experience of kicking out mobile device users, etc. That made movie going only tolerable for me, but still not required. Watching in the comfort of my home while avoiding crowds (even before covid) was well worth the smaller screen and less of an audio experience. Sadly, it took a global pandemic for traditional studios to catch on to the simultaneous releases. Hopefully, they recognize that getting someone to watch at home doesn't mean that they prevented someone from seeing the theater, rather as someone that was not going to see it precisely because they weren't going to the theater and not seeing it at all (during those opening week numbers)
- imglorp 4y ago
  Way before pandemic -- House of Cards was 2013 -- another factor was probably cheaper, larger home displays. Also around that time, "wire cutters" were massing, pissed at the cable mentality of curation: watching what they offered, on the device they permitted, on the schedule they dictated, and also forced to pay for channels you didn't want. Bit Torrent and Netflix together offered a far more pleasant alternative.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    House of Cards was never a theatrical bit of content, so not quite the same thing for this discussion specifically. Episodic content was still "TV Programming" by the feature types. In 2013, episodics were still getting people used to the serial or limited series type of content. This has been my favorite format for some time now. More time to tell a story than a single feature, yet short enough to avoid filling time with cruft just to reach an arbitrary episode count. The 8-10 episode hour long series are great for really in-depth stories.
zirpderp 4y ago
Nope - you can thank torrentz
- raydev 4y ago
  Netflix effectively killed torrenting's chances at truly reaching the masses. Most people weren't hooking a PC up to their TV. By the time little hackable streaming devices became popular Netflix had already fully taken over.
  - sph 4y ago
    Yet Netflix and the movie industry itself hasn't been able to reduce torrenting by much, since the limited choice and fragmentation of movie licenses across a dozen services means that Torrent is still the best way to watch everything you want. Their greed, their loss. If Spotify and Steam have reduced music and game torrenting by 99%, Netflix & co. reduced it by much less than that. Most of my non-technical friends pay for one service or maybe two, everything else is on Popcorn Time. "Piracy is a service problem." — Gabe Newell
    - raydev 4y ago
      > Yet Netflix and the movie industry itself hasn't been able to reduce torrenting by much, They don't need to. Clearly streaming services have been and continue to be successful. This is not a zero sum game. Nerds who hate paying for stuff will always exist, but most people aren't going to hack a device or even download Kodi to their Fire Stick. These people are satisfied. The old school movie studios definitely care a lot because they hate innovation, and they've definitely failed. > Most of my non-technical friends pay for one service or maybe two, everything else is on Popcorn Time. Sorry, you're still posting on Hacker News which has certain implications regarding the people you like hanging out with. Your non-technical friends are still unusual.

by madrox 4y ago

hammyhavoc 4y ago

I had the exact same experience with Mononoke Hime. It piqued my interest in the rest of the world as a kid. I started importing a lot of media globally after that, and made some life-long friends at various record and comic book stores around the world, who to this day still help me get my grubby little mitts on physical-only releases. People may also forget that Netflix and similar offered DVD rentals and purchases via mail prior to streaming. That's not to be underestimated in how important it was to a significant demographic, being able to access culture they otherwise would not have been able to due to cost or scarcity. It's a good time for cultural accessibility.

tjr225 4y ago

Princess Mononoke is one of my favorite movies of all time but Netflix is more or less straight up garbage. Even their flagship offerings like Stranger Things are creatively bankrupt references for bored millennial parents.

me_me_me 4y ago
Netflix has many good interesting shows, however they have a habit of cancelling them.
madrox 4y ago
Perhaps, but I don't think you could argue that how things were 20 years ago was better.
- tjr225 4y ago
  At least we had stuff like princess Mononoke!
mcphage 4y ago
Studio Ghibli doesn’t scale well.
- _ofdw 4y ago
  Perhaps not everything needs to "scale".
  - dylan604 4y ago
    This needs to be a motivational poster hung up in everyone's office. I'm trying to think up which generic imagery the block font should be on top.
    - _ofdw 4y ago
      Wasabi?
    - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
      The Mona Lisa.
    - mcphage 4y ago
      Campbell's Soup Cans?

PuppyTailWags 4y ago

> how badly Hollywood used to gatekeep entertainment Hollywood still gatekeeps.

2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
I don't know you can keep blaming Hollywood. I've been watching english subtitled shows for decades. Before high speed internet was affordable, people were sharing fan subbed anime. Dudes at university would show up with their RAIDs with multiple seasons worth of anime. Back then we still measured RAM in megabytes. Things have only gotten easier to watch.
- benreesman 4y ago
  Eh for awhile my Apple TV was starting to seem like the asymptotic limit of how easy it could be to watch what I wanted at the price of subsidizing a bunch of empty suits in Hollywood. Then at some point everyone with an IP catalog started launching a streaming service and at the rate it’s going I might re-learn how piracy works because I value my own time enough to be pretty much over trying to figure out if my show du jour is on Disney Plus or Viacom Prime.
- madrox 4y ago
  I think we're both seeing a generational difference here. Those of us who remember those times know in our bones how much better things are...even if you don't want to look that hard. That was 15+ years ago. A lot of HN probably wasn't around to remember. I don't want this to be a "kids today don't know how good they have it" post, but that's playing a role. However, that attitude is probably what's going to keep driving things to get even better.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- newbie2020 4y ago
  Yeah but that’s illegal

AceJohnny2 4y ago

> It flummoxed Miramax It flummoxed Harvey Weinstein! May that creep rot in prison.

cam_l 4y ago
Apparently, (perhaps apocryphally), Miyazaki sent him a Katana with the message 'no cuts' to his masterpiece. I like to think whoever received it kept it to perhaps, if the opportunity presented itself, make some cuts to Weinstein's masterpiece.
- styluss 4y ago
  Seems like it was a producer that sent it. https://www.polygon.com/animation-cartoons/2020/5/26/21270413/princess-mononoke-hayao-miyazaki-movies-harvey-weinstein-katana-story-studio-ghibli https://www.polygon.com/animation-cartoons/2020/5/26/2127041...
  - cam_l 4y ago
    Thanks for finding that! I remembered hearing Miyazaki talk about it in a docco, but couldn't confirm the details. It's amazing how, once it gets some legs, it is so hard to find anything but the same repeated story.

dylan604 4y ago

>Before then, every entrenched name in Hollywood mocked the internet as something consumers would never prefer for movies. This was a big misjudgement in thinking that people cared more about the theatrical experience than just the consumption of the content. Going to the movies became a chore, which allowed for those "niche" theaters that sold tickets while allowing the specific seat to be selected, better experience of kicking out mobile device users, etc. That made movie going only tolerable for me, but still not required. Watching in the comfort of my home while avoiding crowds (even before covid) was well worth the smaller screen and less of an audio experience. Sadly, it took a global pandemic for traditional studios to catch on to the simultaneous releases. Hopefully, they recognize that getting someone to watch at home doesn't mean that they prevented someone from seeing the theater, rather as someone that was not going to see it precisely because they weren't going to the theater and not seeing it at all (during those opening week numbers)

imglorp 4y ago
Way before pandemic -- House of Cards was 2013 -- another factor was probably cheaper, larger home displays. Also around that time, "wire cutters" were massing, pissed at the cable mentality of curation: watching what they offered, on the device they permitted, on the schedule they dictated, and also forced to pay for channels you didn't want. Bit Torrent and Netflix together offered a far more pleasant alternative.
- dylan604 4y ago
  House of Cards was never a theatrical bit of content, so not quite the same thing for this discussion specifically. Episodic content was still "TV Programming" by the feature types. In 2013, episodics were still getting people used to the serial or limited series type of content. This has been my favorite format for some time now. More time to tell a story than a single feature, yet short enough to avoid filling time with cruft just to reach an arbitrary episode count. The 8-10 episode hour long series are great for really in-depth stories.

zirpderp 4y ago

Nope - you can thank torrentz

raydev 4y ago
Netflix effectively killed torrenting's chances at truly reaching the masses. Most people weren't hooking a PC up to their TV. By the time little hackable streaming devices became popular Netflix had already fully taken over.
- sph 4y ago
  Yet Netflix and the movie industry itself hasn't been able to reduce torrenting by much, since the limited choice and fragmentation of movie licenses across a dozen services means that Torrent is still the best way to watch everything you want. Their greed, their loss. If Spotify and Steam have reduced music and game torrenting by 99%, Netflix & co. reduced it by much less than that. Most of my non-technical friends pay for one service or maybe two, everything else is on Popcorn Time. "Piracy is a service problem." — Gabe Newell
  - raydev 4y ago
    > Yet Netflix and the movie industry itself hasn't been able to reduce torrenting by much, They don't need to. Clearly streaming services have been and continue to be successful. This is not a zero sum game. Nerds who hate paying for stuff will always exist, but most people aren't going to hack a device or even download Kodi to their Fire Stick. These people are satisfied. The old school movie studios definitely care a lot because they hate innovation, and they've definitely failed. > Most of my non-technical friends pay for one service or maybe two, everything else is on Popcorn Time. Sorry, you're still posting on Hacker News which has certain implications regarding the people you like hanging out with. Your non-technical friends are still unusual.