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> there are not good grounds to say that SF and the IRA are the same thing. What would be good enough grounds, in your view? > If you think no reconciliation

> there are not good grounds to say that SF and the IRA are the same thing. What would be good enough grounds, in your view? > If you think no reconciliation is possible then there's no real point in saying any of this to you If you think I mean reconciliation with nationalists is impossible, that is not the case at all. If you think reconciliation is possible with a party that has admitted in private that its public friendly persona is a trojan horse, I won't be taken for a fool.

biorach 4y ago
> What would be good enough grounds, in your view? That's getting a bit hypothetical. I'm just working with the evidence available to me right now. If strong enough evidence appears to the contrary then I will change my mind And look... If you think that whatever off the cuff comments are actually the defining statement of the party's essence then ok, go with that.
- HeckFeck 4y ago
  Evidence, like the presence of several senior Provisional IRA members in the upper party ranks, and reliable intelligence that indicates that the IRA Army Council directs both PIRA and Sinn Fein strategy? The honoured presence of all senior Sinn Fein members at funerals for notorious PIRA members? The pro-IRA chants at election counts? Politics is a game where truth is expended for convenience, and in this regard SF/IRA are hardly exceptions. They called it the "Ballet box and armalite" strategy. Would you at least agree that choosing an alternative party without these connections and connotations would be a better gesture from the Nationalist community to Unionists? > off the cuff comments I would say that an address to a party audience by the party founder addressing party strategy gives the comments significant weight, yes. If Jeffery Donaldson made comments remotely like these they would make headlines for weeks. > party's essence Sinn Fein - Ourselves Alone.
  - biorach 4y ago
    I'm really wanting to wrap this up and get to bed > reliable intelligence that indicates that the IRA Army Council directs both PIRA and Sinn Fein strategy Again, I _think_ I'm aware of most of the relevant evidence and to me it indicates that some former high ranking IRA members still are involved in the party leadership, but nowhere near the extent that they could be said to "control" the party > Would you at least agree that choosing an alternative party without these connections and connotations would be a better gesture from the Nationalist community to Unionists? Yeah I see your point. But, let's face it, neither community has been all that good with gestures. I could go on about speeches made by the founding member of the DUP, but, you know what, that shit is in the past, I'd rather just move on. > Sinn Fein - Ourselves Alone. Ouch... That's not the literal meaning... Not easy to explain. Irish is a tricky bitch of a language, best just leave it out.

biorach 4y ago

> What would be good enough grounds, in your view? That's getting a bit hypothetical. I'm just working with the evidence available to me right now. If strong enough evidence appears to the contrary then I will change my mind And look... If you think that whatever off the cuff comments are actually the defining statement of the party's essence then ok, go with that.

HeckFeck 4y ago
Evidence, like the presence of several senior Provisional IRA members in the upper party ranks, and reliable intelligence that indicates that the IRA Army Council directs both PIRA and Sinn Fein strategy? The honoured presence of all senior Sinn Fein members at funerals for notorious PIRA members? The pro-IRA chants at election counts? Politics is a game where truth is expended for convenience, and in this regard SF/IRA are hardly exceptions. They called it the "Ballet box and armalite" strategy. Would you at least agree that choosing an alternative party without these connections and connotations would be a better gesture from the Nationalist community to Unionists? > off the cuff comments I would say that an address to a party audience by the party founder addressing party strategy gives the comments significant weight, yes. If Jeffery Donaldson made comments remotely like these they would make headlines for weeks. > party's essence Sinn Fein - Ourselves Alone.
- biorach 4y ago
  I'm really wanting to wrap this up and get to bed > reliable intelligence that indicates that the IRA Army Council directs both PIRA and Sinn Fein strategy Again, I _think_ I'm aware of most of the relevant evidence and to me it indicates that some former high ranking IRA members still are involved in the party leadership, but nowhere near the extent that they could be said to "control" the party > Would you at least agree that choosing an alternative party without these connections and connotations would be a better gesture from the Nationalist community to Unionists? Yeah I see your point. But, let's face it, neither community has been all that good with gestures. I could go on about speeches made by the founding member of the DUP, but, you know what, that shit is in the past, I'd rather just move on. > Sinn Fein - Ourselves Alone. Ouch... That's not the literal meaning... Not easy to explain. Irish is a tricky bitch of a language, best just leave it out.