4 ms·

Are modern Volvos still better than average for corrosion resistance?

by bradfa 4y ago

jacquesm 4y ago
Somewhere in the late 90's early 2000's car manufacturers switched paint processes, typically to a water based paint. That's the point in time where you could see the most clearly which manufacturers had their house in order in terms of weld cleaning, seam coating, basic material procurement and surface protection. Some of them failed horribly, which led to some brands (for instance: Mercedes) having an undisclosed hit against their earnings to deal with the resulting rust issues on relatively new cars. It wasn't rare at all to see an early 2000's C-Class in the shop for the replacement of four doors, bonnet and rear hatch. And it wasn't rare to see them completely rusted out either a few years later. From Q1 2003 they galvanized those panels and then the problem stopped. So everybody smartened up and now things are much better, to the point that there hardly are cars made that have serious rust issues. Coatings are a continuous materials science development front and some of the stuff that happened in the last decade and a half is extremely impressive. Car bodies used to be gone long before the engines, those days are over. VAG, Volvo, Mercedes, BMW all have a very good reputation nowadays for being rust resistant, I would not know of a favorite between those. By the way, Volvo is now Chinese (bought by scooter manufacturer Geely). My own car is a 1997 (just before they switched paint formulation for that particular brand) and there isn't a spot of rust on it and as far as I know it has never had body work done. (Don't get me started about engines though...)
- wbsss4412 4y ago
  Volvo is owned by a Chinese parent company, but their operations are still based in the same places as before. Using the definition implied by your comment, they were previously and “American” car manufacturer as they were sold to geeley by ford. Edit: absurd typo, it is owned by a Chinese company.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    > Volvo is not owned by a Chinese parent company, but their operations are still based in the same places as before. You are welcome to use your own definition of the word 'owned' but I'll just stick to the dictionary one. > Using the definition implied by your comment, they were previously and “American” car manufacturer as they were sold to geeley by ford. https://www.industryweek.com/finance/software-systems/article/21941803/volvo-sold-to-chinas-geely https://www.industryweek.com/finance/software-systems/articl...
    - Gracana 4y ago
      I highly suspect, based on facts about Volvo and the structure of that sentence, that they didn't mean to write "not owned", but rather "now owned."
      - wbsss4412 4y ago
        Yes, that is indeed correct. Thank you for clarifying for me.
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        Ah, that could be, thank you for pointing that out. That would make a lot more sense. But then I still don't understand the comment. Volvo is now Chinese, whether you like it or not is another matter.
        tome 4y ago
        Would you say that Arm is a Japanese company?
        jacquesm 4y ago
        Yes, absolutely. As soon as majority ownership of a company changes from one nationality to another you're kidding yourself if you want to continue to see it as belonging to the country where it originated. The shareholders control who runs the company, what it does, how it does it and ultimately where the profits are. It's just like outsourcing. But we don't like it when we look at Asian companies owning famous Western brands. But when McDonalds operates in China we're quick to call it an American company. That works both ways.
- bradfa 4y ago
  So everybody smartened up and now things are much better, to the point that there hardly are cars made that have serious rust issues. I find this entertaining. Come to upstate NY, USA where we liberally salt our roads in the winter. Definitely not "everybody" smartened up as it's still very common to find vehicles here that after 10 years should be declared unsafe to operate due to rust-through of critical structural components.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Interesting, any particular brands or is that across the board? Here we liberally salt our roads as well in winter and in the past cars would not last a decade before falling apart. Now you really have to look to figure out which cars are new, 10 or 20 years old. Rust is - as far as I can see - a solved problem. Not many US cars on the road here though.
    - mlyle 4y ago
      A big part, I think, is differing European attitudes towards maintenance. If there's a bit of coating damage and a rust spot somewhere detected by a mechanic in the US, everyone involved is likely to shrug and not bother with any remediation. The customer doesn't want to pay to prevent a problem that will manifest in years, and there's more lucrative work the mechanic could be doing.
    - bradfa 4y ago
      Chevrolet and GMC full size pickup trucks and SUVs are probably the worst offenders. Which seems counter intuitive since many of GM's engineering and design happens in northern climates with salted roads. It's not all of GM's vehicles which are subject to this, many do have good corrosion resistance, they just choose to only use such techniques on a subset of the vehicles they produce. For example: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10178959-9999.pdf https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10178959-9999.pdf A few years back now Toyota had a big recall on Tundra pickups for improperly applied corrosion prevention. I'm to believe they corrected this as it was quite expensive for them to repair so many customer vehicles.
- gandalfian 4y ago
  Hmm, we have one of the rusty c classes, made in South Africa. The doors, bonnet etc have been just fine. Underneath is the disaster. Particularly the rear end which has collapsed several times as it just rusted through in the first ten years. Bizarre. Bodged up by a backstreet garage it still goes, engine just fine, never a problem, just that faint disconcerting worry the wheels will fall off again...
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Those engines last forever. I had a C-class from that vintage, it looked like you could walk in on one side and out the other without opening the doors (great: nobody ever thought of stealing that car). But the engine just kept on working and as far as I know it still runs (in Limburg, with a friend that I haven't seen since COVID).
- georgeburdell 4y ago
  My first car was a ‘96 Nissan Altima. By 2004 when I got it, the paint was worn away on the center of the hood and the top. My family got 3 new cars circa 2010, one of which is an Altima, never had this issue again. Perhaps this is explained by what you’re talking about? Despite cars being on the road for longer than ever, I feel like I’ve seen far fewer “rust buckets” than in my youth

Are modern Volvos still better than average for corrosion resistance?

by bradfa 4y ago

Are modern Volvos still better than average for corrosion resistance?

Somewhere in the late 90's early 2000's car manufacturers switched paint processes, typically to a water based paint. That's the point in time where you could see the most clearly which manufacturers had their house in order in terms of weld cleaning, seam coating, basic material procurement and surface protection. Some of them failed horribly, which led to some brands (for instance: Mercedes) having an undisclosed hit against their earnings to deal with the resulting rust issues on relatively new cars. It wasn't rare at all to see an early 2000's C-Class in the shop for the replacement of four doors, bonnet and rear hatch. And it wasn't rare to see them completely rusted out either a few years later. From Q1 2003 they galvanized those panels and then the problem stopped. So everybody smartened up and now things are much better, to the point that there hardly are cars made that have serious rust issues. Coatings are a continuous materials science development front and some of the stuff that happened in the last decade and a half is extremely impressive. Car bodies used to be gone long before the engines, those days are over. VAG, Volvo, Mercedes, BMW all have a very good reputation nowadays for being rust resistant, I would not know of a favorite between those. By the way, Volvo is now Chinese (bought by scooter manufacturer Geely). My own car is a 1997 (just before they switched paint formulation for that particular brand) and there isn't a spot of rust on it and as far as I know it has never had body work done. (Don't get me started about engines though...)

wbsss4412 4y ago
Volvo is owned by a Chinese parent company, but their operations are still based in the same places as before. Using the definition implied by your comment, they were previously and “American” car manufacturer as they were sold to geeley by ford. Edit: absurd typo, it is owned by a Chinese company.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  > Volvo is not owned by a Chinese parent company, but their operations are still based in the same places as before. You are welcome to use your own definition of the word 'owned' but I'll just stick to the dictionary one. > Using the definition implied by your comment, they were previously and “American” car manufacturer as they were sold to geeley by ford. https://www.industryweek.com/finance/software-systems/article/21941803/volvo-sold-to-chinas-geely https://www.industryweek.com/finance/software-systems/articl...
  - Gracana 4y ago
    I highly suspect, based on facts about Volvo and the structure of that sentence, that they didn't mean to write "not owned", but rather "now owned."
    - wbsss4412 4y ago
      Yes, that is indeed correct. Thank you for clarifying for me.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      Ah, that could be, thank you for pointing that out. That would make a lot more sense. But then I still don't understand the comment. Volvo is now Chinese, whether you like it or not is another matter.
      - tome 4y ago
        Would you say that Arm is a Japanese company?
        jacquesm 4y ago
        Yes, absolutely. As soon as majority ownership of a company changes from one nationality to another you're kidding yourself if you want to continue to see it as belonging to the country where it originated. The shareholders control who runs the company, what it does, how it does it and ultimately where the profits are. It's just like outsourcing. But we don't like it when we look at Asian companies owning famous Western brands. But when McDonalds operates in China we're quick to call it an American company. That works both ways.
bradfa 4y ago
So everybody smartened up and now things are much better, to the point that there hardly are cars made that have serious rust issues. I find this entertaining. Come to upstate NY, USA where we liberally salt our roads in the winter. Definitely not "everybody" smartened up as it's still very common to find vehicles here that after 10 years should be declared unsafe to operate due to rust-through of critical structural components.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Interesting, any particular brands or is that across the board? Here we liberally salt our roads as well in winter and in the past cars would not last a decade before falling apart. Now you really have to look to figure out which cars are new, 10 or 20 years old. Rust is - as far as I can see - a solved problem. Not many US cars on the road here though.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    A big part, I think, is differing European attitudes towards maintenance. If there's a bit of coating damage and a rust spot somewhere detected by a mechanic in the US, everyone involved is likely to shrug and not bother with any remediation. The customer doesn't want to pay to prevent a problem that will manifest in years, and there's more lucrative work the mechanic could be doing.
  - bradfa 4y ago
    Chevrolet and GMC full size pickup trucks and SUVs are probably the worst offenders. Which seems counter intuitive since many of GM's engineering and design happens in northern climates with salted roads. It's not all of GM's vehicles which are subject to this, many do have good corrosion resistance, they just choose to only use such techniques on a subset of the vehicles they produce. For example: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10178959-9999.pdf https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10178959-9999.pdf A few years back now Toyota had a big recall on Tundra pickups for improperly applied corrosion prevention. I'm to believe they corrected this as it was quite expensive for them to repair so many customer vehicles.
gandalfian 4y ago
Hmm, we have one of the rusty c classes, made in South Africa. The doors, bonnet etc have been just fine. Underneath is the disaster. Particularly the rear end which has collapsed several times as it just rusted through in the first ten years. Bizarre. Bodged up by a backstreet garage it still goes, engine just fine, never a problem, just that faint disconcerting worry the wheels will fall off again...
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Those engines last forever. I had a C-class from that vintage, it looked like you could walk in on one side and out the other without opening the doors (great: nobody ever thought of stealing that car). But the engine just kept on working and as far as I know it still runs (in Limburg, with a friend that I haven't seen since COVID).
georgeburdell 4y ago
My first car was a ‘96 Nissan Altima. By 2004 when I got it, the paint was worn away on the center of the hood and the top. My family got 3 new cars circa 2010, one of which is an Altima, never had this issue again. Perhaps this is explained by what you’re talking about? Despite cars being on the road for longer than ever, I feel like I’ve seen far fewer “rust buckets” than in my youth