5 ms·

Tell HN: PayPal Charges 10.57% in Fee (USD-INR)

24 points by saradhi 4y ago

For a user payment of USD282.89, we have received an INR 19,973.10 We have multiple payment gateways on our platform 1. PayPal - Accepts most cards. But hefty 10.57% in FEE 2. Stripe - Often reject INR Transactions as INR payments require 3D authentication 3. RazorPay - Disabled international transactions for 6 months. Forced to link PayPal on Day 1. RazorPay comparatively takes less transaction fee that the other 2. But they don't allow international transactions in the first 6 months. Any suggestions of good payment gateways, for Indian registered company, for International Transactions?

blueanchovy 4y ago
[dead]
- r1jsheth 4y ago
  I know about wise but have you used the other two? How was the experience?
  - blueanchovy 4y ago
    sorry, haven't used, just knew about them
blueanchovy 4y ago
[dead]
superasn 4y ago
Also paypal withdraws everything to your bank account everyday and leaves a $0 balance so you can't process any intl refunds. Payment processing is still very hopeless in India.
- ghoul2 4y ago
  Best I understand it, this is required by Indian rules. They cannot permit you to carry out "banking" transactions with your paypal account. Meaning the dollars received must get back to a "real" bank account denominated in INR. And any USD you need to send out must be obtained by sourcing INR from your bank account, going thru RBI to get those USD (so they can monitor and control forex flows, including annual limits etc). In brief, paypal is not a bank (in India) and is not allowed to act like one. Any money it receives it needs to transfer to a real bank immediately, and money to be sent out must come from a real bank as well.
TekMol 4y ago
Do you only need a payment gateway? I'm in Europe and there is a lot more to accept payments here: You need to ask the customer for their location and then calculate VAT and other tax details depending on where they are. You need to ask for their address and send them an invoice. You need to store all that data and create tax reports from it. I have not started to sell digital goods yet, but I am planning to. Any tips on payment providers who abstract all of that away? I think the payment provider then has to be the one from whom the customer buys the service and your "customer" is the payment provider? I'm surprised there is not a big player who handles this for all online merchants around the world already. It must be a giant business.
- cryvate1284 4y ago
  I think you're talking about a merchant of record, like Paddle. https://www.paddle.com/ https://www.paddle.com/
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- radiojasper 4y ago
  > Any tips on payment providers who abstract all of that away? Stripe, Mollie. Mollie is kinda awesome and they're affordable and offer a vast array of payment systems, including a whole bunch of local systems like iDeal for NL markets, Przelewy24 for Polish markets, Bancontact for Belgium and a lot more.
  - TekMol 4y ago
    I don't think that Stripe offers that the customer buys the product from them and Stripe buys it from you? If not, you are still left with one hell of a complex tax reporting. Even if Stripe should help you to gather all the needed data. Does stripe handle the invoicing? So that every customer gets an invoice they can use in their country?
    - radiojasper 4y ago
radiojasper 4y ago
I don't get why 3D authentican is a problem? That's just baked into my CC app?
- kc10 4y ago
  I assume OP is referring to the complexity with recurring payments from Indian customers. Since April 2021, India has rules that makes it really hard to accept recurring payments. In addition to the 3DS authentication at setup, the transaction has to go through 3DS authentication every month for transactions over Rs.15000($190). To simply explain the flow, every month an email would need to go to the subscriber and the subscriber has to approve the transaction via 3DS. Only then the recurring transaction will go through.
  - radiojasper 4y ago
    Oh that's a hassle indeed and totally bad for business because it gives the client the 'opportunity' to rethink their expenses each month. Thanks for explaining this!
nerdawson 4y ago
Take the payment in USD using Stripe, connect it to a Wise borderless account, and let Wise handle the currency conversion.
- saradhi 4y ago
  Wow. Never knew Wise offers business account going to open it now. Hoping this works.
- kc10 4y ago
  Does it not require to go through 3DS for recurring transactions if billed in USD?
  - nerdawson 4y ago
    Presumably Stripe is equipped for whatever type of auth / verification is required. The solution outlined was really just intended to fix excessive exchange fees. Bill in USD and deposit the funds directly into Wise which acts like a regular US bank account.
    - kc10 4y ago
      cool..ya, Stripe is capable of sending out advance email notifications to capture 3DS for recurring payments. But user has to complete the 3DS authentication every month for the payment to go through. It's just a hassle to remind the user every month that they have to complete the AFA on time and code the processes in the system to deal with delays more details - https://stripe.com/docs/india-recurring-payments https://stripe.com/docs/india-recurring-payments
anu0012 4y ago
[dead]
phraze 4y ago
Wise.com does really good value international transfers. Usually cheaper than most competitors when considering inflated exchange rates. Not sure if they offer a gateway though, they do have business accounts and an API which might suit your needs
- ratg13 4y ago
  You could use Stripe to charge people in USD/EUR and then use Wise to transfer from Stripe to your bank while doing the change to INR along the way. This would probably be the most cost effective method.
ChrisLomont 4y ago
For those interested, the reason places charge high rates on some exchanges is to cover risk. Here [1] is USD versus INR - look over the past year. Look at USD to CAN or GBP or EUR on the same site for comparison. Another factor is liquidity in the markets allowing those doing exchanges to offload unbalanced books efficiently. [1] https://www.exchangerates.org.uk/USD-INR-exchange-rate-history.html https://www.exchangerates.org.uk/USD-INR-exchange-rate-histo...
surds 4y ago
I have been there and this situation sucks. I have been testing payments with Stripe, using both an Indian and a US credit card. I have standing instructions on Indian CC and get advance email notifications but it goes through. Don’t even get any notification for US CC, except post payment notification. Experience may vary for larger amounts, as mentioned in the comments here.

24 points by saradhi 4y ago

blueanchovy 4y ago

[dead]

r1jsheth 4y ago
I know about wise but have you used the other two? How was the experience?
- blueanchovy 4y ago
  sorry, haven't used, just knew about them

blueanchovy 4y ago

[dead]

superasn 4y ago

Also paypal withdraws everything to your bank account everyday and leaves a $0 balance so you can't process any intl refunds. Payment processing is still very hopeless in India.

ghoul2 4y ago
Best I understand it, this is required by Indian rules. They cannot permit you to carry out "banking" transactions with your paypal account. Meaning the dollars received must get back to a "real" bank account denominated in INR. And any USD you need to send out must be obtained by sourcing INR from your bank account, going thru RBI to get those USD (so they can monitor and control forex flows, including annual limits etc). In brief, paypal is not a bank (in India) and is not allowed to act like one. Any money it receives it needs to transfer to a real bank immediately, and money to be sent out must come from a real bank as well.

TekMol 4y ago

Do you only need a payment gateway? I'm in Europe and there is a lot more to accept payments here: You need to ask the customer for their location and then calculate VAT and other tax details depending on where they are. You need to ask for their address and send them an invoice. You need to store all that data and create tax reports from it. I have not started to sell digital goods yet, but I am planning to. Any tips on payment providers who abstract all of that away? I think the payment provider then has to be the one from whom the customer buys the service and your "customer" is the payment provider? I'm surprised there is not a big player who handles this for all online merchants around the world already. It must be a giant business.

cryvate1284 4y ago
I think you're talking about a merchant of record, like Paddle. https://www.paddle.com/ https://www.paddle.com/
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
radiojasper 4y ago
> Any tips on payment providers who abstract all of that away? Stripe, Mollie. Mollie is kinda awesome and they're affordable and offer a vast array of payment systems, including a whole bunch of local systems like iDeal for NL markets, Przelewy24 for Polish markets, Bancontact for Belgium and a lot more.
- TekMol 4y ago
  I don't think that Stripe offers that the customer buys the product from them and Stripe buys it from you? If not, you are still left with one hell of a complex tax reporting. Even if Stripe should help you to gather all the needed data. Does stripe handle the invoicing? So that every customer gets an invoice they can use in their country?
  - radiojasper 4y ago

radiojasper 4y ago

I don't get why 3D authentican is a problem? That's just baked into my CC app?

kc10 4y ago
I assume OP is referring to the complexity with recurring payments from Indian customers. Since April 2021, India has rules that makes it really hard to accept recurring payments. In addition to the 3DS authentication at setup, the transaction has to go through 3DS authentication every month for transactions over Rs.15000($190). To simply explain the flow, every month an email would need to go to the subscriber and the subscriber has to approve the transaction via 3DS. Only then the recurring transaction will go through.
- radiojasper 4y ago
  Oh that's a hassle indeed and totally bad for business because it gives the client the 'opportunity' to rethink their expenses each month. Thanks for explaining this!

nerdawson 4y ago

Take the payment in USD using Stripe, connect it to a Wise borderless account, and let Wise handle the currency conversion.

saradhi 4y ago
Wow. Never knew Wise offers business account going to open it now. Hoping this works.
kc10 4y ago
Does it not require to go through 3DS for recurring transactions if billed in USD?
- nerdawson 4y ago
  Presumably Stripe is equipped for whatever type of auth / verification is required. The solution outlined was really just intended to fix excessive exchange fees. Bill in USD and deposit the funds directly into Wise which acts like a regular US bank account.
  - kc10 4y ago
    cool..ya, Stripe is capable of sending out advance email notifications to capture 3DS for recurring payments. But user has to complete the 3DS authentication every month for the payment to go through. It's just a hassle to remind the user every month that they have to complete the AFA on time and code the processes in the system to deal with delays more details - https://stripe.com/docs/india-recurring-payments https://stripe.com/docs/india-recurring-payments

anu0012 4y ago

[dead]

phraze 4y ago

Wise.com does really good value international transfers. Usually cheaper than most competitors when considering inflated exchange rates. Not sure if they offer a gateway though, they do have business accounts and an API which might suit your needs

ratg13 4y ago
You could use Stripe to charge people in USD/EUR and then use Wise to transfer from Stripe to your bank while doing the change to INR along the way. This would probably be the most cost effective method.

ChrisLomont 4y ago

For those interested, the reason places charge high rates on some exchanges is to cover risk. Here [1] is USD versus INR - look over the past year. Look at USD to CAN or GBP or EUR on the same site for comparison. Another factor is liquidity in the markets allowing those doing exchanges to offload unbalanced books efficiently. [1] https://www.exchangerates.org.uk/USD-INR-exchange-rate-history.html https://www.exchangerates.org.uk/USD-INR-exchange-rate-histo...

surds 4y ago

I have been there and this situation sucks. I have been testing payments with Stripe, using both an Indian and a US credit card. I have standing instructions on Indian CC and get advance email notifications but it goes through. Don’t even get any notification for US CC, except post payment notification. Experience may vary for larger amounts, as mentioned in the comments here.