5 ms·
> we need to implement something that can't go backwards and properly models time There simply is no definition of solar time that can obey this constraint lon
by jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
> we need to implement something that can't go backwards and properly models time
There simply is no definition of solar time that can obey this constraint long term, because the rotation of the earth varies, and varies over time in ways we have a limited ability to predict. This is the entire crux of the problem.
- ncmncm 4y agoIt is not the crux of any problem, except for, uniquely, astronomers. But they have their own solution we need pay exactly zero attention to. Leap seconds in UTC are just as big a nuisance for them as for everyone else. They have TAI, sidereal time, and this dumb bastard UTC with its own hacked up thing that doesn't match their precise alternative.
- cryptonector 4y agoIt's not a problem for astronomers. It's a problem for everyone. It's a small problem for everyone today. And it will remain a small problem for a long time. Eventually it will not be a small problem. Meanwhile, making sure everyone agrees as to the kind of time they're talking about it hard enough.
- ncmncm 4y agoEverybody has already settled on UTC. All we need is for UTC not get fucked every 15 to 30 months and break about half the systems that need to communicate with each other. If they stop announcing leap seconds, everything correctly equipped for leap seconds will still work, and everything else that gets it wrong every time will also work. And those of us who have to make the stuff that works right adapt to all the crap that doesn't and can't be fixed can do other things, instead.
- thrown_22 4y agoPeople had agreed on GMT before that. Because we kept getting hit with bugs related to day light saving people invented UTC instead. We have IAT if you want a monotonic measure of time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Atomic_Time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Atomic_Time Use the right tool for the right job. UTC is what it is. Trying to redefine it is as stupid as redefining a foot so 3 feet are a meter exactly.
- ncmncm 4y agoYou seem to have missed that everyone is already on UTC, and will not change to satisfy your sense of esthetics. Fixing UTC by simply not declaring any new leap seconds eliminates all problems. What used to break on a semi-regular basis stops breaking. Nobody suffers. Nobody pays. No problems surface.
- occoder 4y agoHaving read a lot of the comments here, I tend to agree with you. Leap seconds have not sit well with me ever since I learned about them. Messing with the number of seconds in a certain minute a few times a year just seemed ... unclean. So if fellow commenters are right, that without leap seconds it would take 6667 years for the time to drift just one hour, then leap seconds are absolutely more trouble than their worth, and we should drop it this instant and try to come up with a solution for that leap hour in the next six milleniums.
- thrown_22 4y agoIf you don't want leap seconds use TAI. If you do want leap seconds use UTC. This is like people saying that we shouldn't have daylight savings so we should redefine GMT to not have DST. That is not only stupid but breaks all use cases where you care about historical DST. This is why we have UTC, it's GMT - DST. People in 1960 could figure this out. Are we so incompetent that our grandfathers were better programmers than us?
- 4y ago