8 ms·

Inflation is crushing rural America and may even drive people to the cities

25 points by m-watson 4y ago

Finnucane 4y ago
"His analysis found it costs rural households $2,500 more a year to pay for gasoline than it did two years ago." Two years ago no one was driving anywhere and the oil market was in a death spiral.
kylehotchkiss 4y ago
From what I can see, the standard new vehicle for the American Man is a lifted 4-door pick up truck, and these can achieve maybe 17-18MPG on a good highway day. But a green light means go and many of these men push the throttle to the floor to see how many people they can wake up with their exhaust. I'm half joking here, but having a massive lifted vehicle has become a part of masculine identity in the country at a really bad time, and these people could size down just a little to even a Jeep and do better on fuel bills. I'm not even suggesting to ditch the truck! Just save it for the weekends and the mudding trips.
- mod 4y ago
  Jeeps get worse mileage than my full size GMC. So do Toyota Tacomas.
  - kylehotchkiss 4y ago
    Woah, really? Is your GMC diesel?
    - mod 4y ago
      No, but it has a feature where it only uses 4 cylinders when it can. It decides on its own, you can't do it manually. It gets 22-23mpg on the (flat) highway.
  - vdqtp3 4y ago
    Tacomas get shockingly bad mileage, my buddy has one and his truck is getting 12-14 driving very normally.
    - Spartan-S63 4y ago
      That's shockingly bad considering the EPA mileage is rated 17/20!
  - PeterWhittaker 4y ago
    Not sure why this was downvoted. My Jeep gets much worse mileage than my RAM. Even my GF’s stock two door consumes more than my truck. (You’ve probably seen the memes re Wranglers being less aerodynamic than cows and lobsters. They are wheeled boxes, horrible for wind resistance. Add lift, armour, and a few other things, and mileage goes from bad to terrible.)
- aejnsn 4y ago
  A comparably lifted Jeep gets the same mileage as a lifted truck. If they’re paying for it, what concern is it of yours?
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > what concern is it of yours? The noise OP mentioned is a real problem in some communities.
    - aejnsn 4y ago
      That’s a rather poor assumption that every large or lifted vehicle has a modified exhaust system. The article is about inflation and fuel prices, but I assure you nobody is moving from rural to urban and expecting _less_ noise.
      - kylehotchkiss 4y ago
        It's so common where I live now that I didn't even realize people were modifying their exhausts, I thought it was just stock!
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    The main thesis of the article is that they cannot pay for it.
    - mikewave 4y ago
      Correct. The availability of cheap credit + higher than normal resale values for vehicles of late has led to a situation where people are overextending themselves and buying vehicles that cost 80% or more of their yearly income in order to "keep up with the Joneses". I know some people in this situation, and their ability to afford $600/mo payments (plus insurance, plus gas, plus maintenance) is leading them to actually do less: fewer outings, fewer trips, less expenditure elsewhere, perhaps no summer camp for the kids, etc. America badly needs a return to the much lighter S-10 and Ranger of the past, with a 4-banger and a small back seat. These behemoths with V8s are not necessary for most people, and neither is the level of temporary luxury they convey. Let's face it: after a couple years your shiny new truck is just as noteworthy as every other truck on the road, which is to say, most people don't care about it / aren't impressed by it anyway.
- defterGoose 4y ago
  Alternatively, sell the truck to pay your grocery bills?
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  This comment seems to be full of callous hatred and prejudice. Sure there are exceptions, but for fucks sake, go to the country side once in a while. Do a trip this upcoming weekend.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - acdha 4y ago
    I’m not sure what you consider country but this seems pretty accurate based on my recent experiences. There were a lot of $60+k vanity trucks in pristine condition - along with sensible vehicles and a handful of trucks which were actually being used as designed - and it was quite noticeable compared to the same areas a few years prior to the pandemic. I don’t know who needs an $86k (not a joke - I checked) pickup truck to make a fashion statement but I have a strong suspicion that they’re also the kind of people who complain loudly when gas goes up $0.50/gallon.
    - systemvoltage 4y ago
      Maybe you stopped by a small town bar and concluded from what’s parked outside. Either way, HN has a serious delusion about rural life and while it is ok to make observations, HN tends to infuse those opinions with condescension and prejudice. It happens every time we have a discussion about trucks.
      - acdha 4y ago
        > Maybe you stopped by a small town bar and concluded from what’s parked outside. Maybe you’re feeling defensive and are trying to ignore a well-documented change in buying habits. It’s not a secret that people are buying high-margin vanity trucks at unprecedented numbers - there’s even something of a spike in used sales for the kind of smaller pickup trucks which used to be ubiquitous because they’re cheaper to operate and fit in crowded spaces. I’m thinking of the Datsun my grandparents used for their camper which got close to 30mpg on the highway and carried at least as much cargo as I see on easily 75% of the 15mpg vanity trucks.
- honkdaddy 4y ago
  As someone who grew up in the country and now lives in NYC, this is about as out of touch as the takes I used to hear back home about how city people must live. Growing up, my Dad couldn’t have been more proud of his F-150, not because of whatever testosterone fuelled fantasy you’re talking about, but because it meant we could pull city people out of the ditch when they came down our closed road in the wintertime. He never accepted any money from them either, but it made his day whenever someone knocked on our door and he got to bundle up and go out in the snow to help them out. Just a reminder that there are millions of very real rural Americans out there who are nothing like the stereotype you described but would still gladly go out of their way to help you, despite your seemingly low opinion of them.
- heynowheynow 4y ago
  You've been to Austin? How dare you not say "hello" and yet notice all of the dnrgy (small D energy) burning ancient biomass, increasing global warming, adding unnecessary microfines to the air, contributing to noise pollution, and increasing Earth's entropy faster! :) They did, however, get to shout "first" at the next stop light to idle their diesel, glass-packs-enabled tank that also does Jake Braking to that next light as efficiently expensive as possible.
LatteLazy 4y ago
- lolsal 4y ago
  Can you cite any sources that confirm what you assert? Anecdotally, I have lived on a farm and my experience contradicts everything you mentioned, except possibly education (but I don't have children, so I wouldn't really know).
  - skyyler 4y ago
    I'd like to hear about how your farm was more social than a city, with higher incomes.
    - neither_color 4y ago
      Dubar's number suggests that there's a limit to how many deep meaningful friendships/relationships one person can have so living in cities of millions isn't really something anyone needs. As for income it's all abstract. True, rural areas don't provide complex services like software that facilitates the integration of two other softwares to generate paper GDP points, but they make food. Rural areas can exist without cities but cities can't exist without rural areas.
      - alar44 4y ago
        Living in a bigger city doesn't mean more friends necessarily, it means more diverse friend groups which small towns seriously lack. They tend to have a monoculture.
    - lolsal 4y ago
      Sure, if you're looking for anecdotal data I can provide some. I don't know about 'more', but I'd argue it was definitely not 'less' social. I can't speak to the income stuff because I also worked remote during this time, but I will say there were less divisions along economic lines out there than there are in the city, for sure. People share meat and produce with each other regardless of whether they are pulling in a bay-area tech salary or they are working HVAC for the county. We're more similar than you think around a bonfire or with fishing poles in our hands. I live in a city now so these thoughts are comparing some of my experiences in both places: - I spent more time with my neighbors helping each other, sitting around a fire, cooking and sharing food than I do in the city. - seasonal help was much more of a thing in the country - we'd help each other every spring with brush clearing and burning, fall harvests, culling and processing. - I'd go to bars just as much as I would here in town, and there was a coffeeshop from which I'd work (though much more rarely compared to now). - We'd drive in to town to go to sporting events or concerts together, like I drive across town now for the same thing with my friends. - we'd go hunting/fishing together, I guess sort of like I'd go paddling boarding here in town. - volunteering and charity work was very different - you'd mostly go directly help whoever needed help; there weren't as much donation drives or petitions signed. In coming up with that little list it occurred to me that just like in a city there are people that stay to themselves, there's definitely folks in the rural areas that do that also. It might vary so much from person to person that it's not a good comparison to make between rural/urban environments.
cultofmetatron 4y ago
I a 10 year old Prius. I knew Gas prices were getting ridiculous when I had to pay $30 last month for gas!
legitster 4y ago
>"They would love to work and get city wages, but they can't commute. It's too expensive with the gas prices. And really, the thing that's holding them back is the cost of homes." >"Some people are contemplating moving closer to a city, moving to the suburbs, or moving to a small community 45 minutes from a city. So yeah, it will probably, if it continues, accelerate rural depopulation in parts of the Midwest and Great Plains." Once again, the heart of the issue is the American commute. This is kind of interesting: at the same time as white collar workers from the city are fleeing out towards the suburbs, you have blue collar workers feeling pressure to move towards the city.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
itbeho 4y ago
I live in a rural area. I know NOBODY moving closer to the city. Exactly the opposite here. People are fleeing the Bay Area to my area and every single person I've met that has moved here, say it's because of crime and the high cost of living. I read some of the other work put out by the author, Ben Abrams, as well as some of the work espoused by the expert referenced in the article, professor Dave Peters. Abrams appears to be a cookie cutter left leaning journalist that doesn't appear to have spent much time in rural America. Professor Peters is focused on "rural change". I don't think either of these people really understand rural America and this feels like signaling rather than reporting.

25 points by m-watson 4y ago

"His analysis found it costs rural households $2,500 more a year to pay for gasoline than it did two years ago." Two years ago no one was driving anywhere and the oil market was in a death spiral.

kylehotchkiss 4y ago

From what I can see, the standard new vehicle for the American Man is a lifted 4-door pick up truck, and these can achieve maybe 17-18MPG on a good highway day. But a green light means go and many of these men push the throttle to the floor to see how many people they can wake up with their exhaust. I'm half joking here, but having a massive lifted vehicle has become a part of masculine identity in the country at a really bad time, and these people could size down just a little to even a Jeep and do better on fuel bills. I'm not even suggesting to ditch the truck! Just save it for the weekends and the mudding trips.

mod 4y ago
Jeeps get worse mileage than my full size GMC. So do Toyota Tacomas.
- kylehotchkiss 4y ago
  Woah, really? Is your GMC diesel?
  - mod 4y ago
    No, but it has a feature where it only uses 4 cylinders when it can. It decides on its own, you can't do it manually. It gets 22-23mpg on the (flat) highway.
- vdqtp3 4y ago
  Tacomas get shockingly bad mileage, my buddy has one and his truck is getting 12-14 driving very normally.
  - Spartan-S63 4y ago
    That's shockingly bad considering the EPA mileage is rated 17/20!
- PeterWhittaker 4y ago
  Not sure why this was downvoted. My Jeep gets much worse mileage than my RAM. Even my GF’s stock two door consumes more than my truck. (You’ve probably seen the memes re Wranglers being less aerodynamic than cows and lobsters. They are wheeled boxes, horrible for wind resistance. Add lift, armour, and a few other things, and mileage goes from bad to terrible.)
aejnsn 4y ago
A comparably lifted Jeep gets the same mileage as a lifted truck. If they’re paying for it, what concern is it of yours?
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > what concern is it of yours? The noise OP mentioned is a real problem in some communities.
  - aejnsn 4y ago
    That’s a rather poor assumption that every large or lifted vehicle has a modified exhaust system. The article is about inflation and fuel prices, but I assure you nobody is moving from rural to urban and expecting _less_ noise.
    - kylehotchkiss 4y ago
      It's so common where I live now that I didn't even realize people were modifying their exhausts, I thought it was just stock!
- oneoff786 4y ago
  The main thesis of the article is that they cannot pay for it.
  - mikewave 4y ago
    Correct. The availability of cheap credit + higher than normal resale values for vehicles of late has led to a situation where people are overextending themselves and buying vehicles that cost 80% or more of their yearly income in order to "keep up with the Joneses". I know some people in this situation, and their ability to afford $600/mo payments (plus insurance, plus gas, plus maintenance) is leading them to actually do less: fewer outings, fewer trips, less expenditure elsewhere, perhaps no summer camp for the kids, etc. America badly needs a return to the much lighter S-10 and Ranger of the past, with a 4-banger and a small back seat. These behemoths with V8s are not necessary for most people, and neither is the level of temporary luxury they convey. Let's face it: after a couple years your shiny new truck is just as noteworthy as every other truck on the road, which is to say, most people don't care about it / aren't impressed by it anyway.
defterGoose 4y ago
Alternatively, sell the truck to pay your grocery bills?
systemvoltage 4y ago
This comment seems to be full of callous hatred and prejudice. Sure there are exceptions, but for fucks sake, go to the country side once in a while. Do a trip this upcoming weekend.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- acdha 4y ago
  I’m not sure what you consider country but this seems pretty accurate based on my recent experiences. There were a lot of $60+k vanity trucks in pristine condition - along with sensible vehicles and a handful of trucks which were actually being used as designed - and it was quite noticeable compared to the same areas a few years prior to the pandemic. I don’t know who needs an $86k (not a joke - I checked) pickup truck to make a fashion statement but I have a strong suspicion that they’re also the kind of people who complain loudly when gas goes up $0.50/gallon.
  - systemvoltage 4y ago
    Maybe you stopped by a small town bar and concluded from what’s parked outside. Either way, HN has a serious delusion about rural life and while it is ok to make observations, HN tends to infuse those opinions with condescension and prejudice. It happens every time we have a discussion about trucks.
    - acdha 4y ago
      > Maybe you stopped by a small town bar and concluded from what’s parked outside. Maybe you’re feeling defensive and are trying to ignore a well-documented change in buying habits. It’s not a secret that people are buying high-margin vanity trucks at unprecedented numbers - there’s even something of a spike in used sales for the kind of smaller pickup trucks which used to be ubiquitous because they’re cheaper to operate and fit in crowded spaces. I’m thinking of the Datsun my grandparents used for their camper which got close to 30mpg on the highway and carried at least as much cargo as I see on easily 75% of the 15mpg vanity trucks.
honkdaddy 4y ago
As someone who grew up in the country and now lives in NYC, this is about as out of touch as the takes I used to hear back home about how city people must live. Growing up, my Dad couldn’t have been more proud of his F-150, not because of whatever testosterone fuelled fantasy you’re talking about, but because it meant we could pull city people out of the ditch when they came down our closed road in the wintertime. He never accepted any money from them either, but it made his day whenever someone knocked on our door and he got to bundle up and go out in the snow to help them out. Just a reminder that there are millions of very real rural Americans out there who are nothing like the stereotype you described but would still gladly go out of their way to help you, despite your seemingly low opinion of them.
heynowheynow 4y ago
You've been to Austin? How dare you not say "hello" and yet notice all of the dnrgy (small D energy) burning ancient biomass, increasing global warming, adding unnecessary microfines to the air, contributing to noise pollution, and increasing Earth's entropy faster! :) They did, however, get to shout "first" at the next stop light to idle their diesel, glass-packs-enabled tank that also does Jake Braking to that next light as efficiently expensive as possible.

LatteLazy 4y ago

lolsal 4y ago
Can you cite any sources that confirm what you assert? Anecdotally, I have lived on a farm and my experience contradicts everything you mentioned, except possibly education (but I don't have children, so I wouldn't really know).
- skyyler 4y ago
  I'd like to hear about how your farm was more social than a city, with higher incomes.
  - neither_color 4y ago
    Dubar's number suggests that there's a limit to how many deep meaningful friendships/relationships one person can have so living in cities of millions isn't really something anyone needs. As for income it's all abstract. True, rural areas don't provide complex services like software that facilitates the integration of two other softwares to generate paper GDP points, but they make food. Rural areas can exist without cities but cities can't exist without rural areas.
    - alar44 4y ago
      Living in a bigger city doesn't mean more friends necessarily, it means more diverse friend groups which small towns seriously lack. They tend to have a monoculture.
  - lolsal 4y ago
    Sure, if you're looking for anecdotal data I can provide some. I don't know about 'more', but I'd argue it was definitely not 'less' social. I can't speak to the income stuff because I also worked remote during this time, but I will say there were less divisions along economic lines out there than there are in the city, for sure. People share meat and produce with each other regardless of whether they are pulling in a bay-area tech salary or they are working HVAC for the county. We're more similar than you think around a bonfire or with fishing poles in our hands. I live in a city now so these thoughts are comparing some of my experiences in both places: - I spent more time with my neighbors helping each other, sitting around a fire, cooking and sharing food than I do in the city. - seasonal help was much more of a thing in the country - we'd help each other every spring with brush clearing and burning, fall harvests, culling and processing. - I'd go to bars just as much as I would here in town, and there was a coffeeshop from which I'd work (though much more rarely compared to now). - We'd drive in to town to go to sporting events or concerts together, like I drive across town now for the same thing with my friends. - we'd go hunting/fishing together, I guess sort of like I'd go paddling boarding here in town. - volunteering and charity work was very different - you'd mostly go directly help whoever needed help; there weren't as much donation drives or petitions signed. In coming up with that little list it occurred to me that just like in a city there are people that stay to themselves, there's definitely folks in the rural areas that do that also. It might vary so much from person to person that it's not a good comparison to make between rural/urban environments.

cultofmetatron 4y ago

I a 10 year old Prius. I knew Gas prices were getting ridiculous when I had to pay $30 last month for gas!

legitster 4y ago

>"They would love to work and get city wages, but they can't commute. It's too expensive with the gas prices. And really, the thing that's holding them back is the cost of homes." >"Some people are contemplating moving closer to a city, moving to the suburbs, or moving to a small community 45 minutes from a city. So yeah, it will probably, if it continues, accelerate rural depopulation in parts of the Midwest and Great Plains." Once again, the heart of the issue is the American commute. This is kind of interesting: at the same time as white collar workers from the city are fleeing out towards the suburbs, you have blue collar workers feeling pressure to move towards the city.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

itbeho 4y ago

I live in a rural area. I know NOBODY moving closer to the city. Exactly the opposite here. People are fleeing the Bay Area to my area and every single person I've met that has moved here, say it's because of crime and the high cost of living. I read some of the other work put out by the author, Ben Abrams, as well as some of the work espoused by the expert referenced in the article, professor Dave Peters. Abrams appears to be a cookie cutter left leaning journalist that doesn't appear to have spent much time in rural America. Professor Peters is focused on "rural change". I don't think either of these people really understand rural America and this feels like signaling rather than reporting.