4 ms·

Considering a) ze German penchant for interesting control linkages and b) the lack of an 80degree CV shaft shown in the demo video I'm assuming this is a RWD th

Considering a) ze German penchant for interesting control linkages and b) the lack of an 80degree CV shaft shown in the demo video I'm assuming this is a RWD thing. If they could pull of an 80deg CV joint, hell even a 60deg one, at a decent price/performance point that would be the real money maker here. Every fork lift made in the last century can turn the wheels near 90, being able to transmit the power there (like you need in a FWD application) is the hard part. Furthermore, work trucks and vans need this kind of stuff a lot more than compact cars do. A tiny car already turns good enough to be not a pain point in practice, the opposite really. People are already highly satisfied with them so making it turn better is just dick measuring. Taking a van that turns bad and making it turn good is a competitive advantage.

0xbadcafebee 4y ago
> A tiny car already turns good. This device would gain us 1-2 more cars per parallel parked city block (if it took off). You simply can't get out of a parallel parked space without extra room due to steering angle.
- prmoustache 4y ago
  It is more about how much patience do you have than steering angle.
- _carbyau_ 4y ago
  I find it is mostly about whether I have the patience to find the perfect position/angle of approach, timing of turn etc. Much easier to simply drive along and find a slightly bigger park. Combine this with auto-park though. Could be nice.
hnov 4y ago
Maybe the thing to solve this will be individual electric motors that are mounted to subframe as to not add unsprung mass but articulate with the wheel somehow. Or more realistically instead of huge angle on undriven wheels, a bit of an angle on all wheels. It’s been done for a while, in the 90s on Japanese sports cars and now German luxo barges.
- SigmundA 4y ago
  Something like Ree [1] drives will probably be the future, minimizing unsprung while moving the drivetrain out to the wheels. I could see a top mounted motor driving a splined shaft that is also the kingpin with a sliding pinion driving wheel and you would have full 360 ability just have to keep friction down on the sliding pinion. Basically sliding pillar suspension with the pillar also being the driveshaft. Or just rotate the whole drive with suspension unit, just needs a much larger wheel well. 1. https://ree.auto/technology/ https://ree.auto/technology/
  - baybal2 4y ago
  - _carbyau_ 4y ago
    The Ree auto thing seems pretty cool. I hope they - or similar - comes to market. Having a car that can four wheel drive and steer with all the traction/anti-spin/abs etc smarts based on a modular component that can be replaced as required sounds great. Imagines upgrading to smart height adjustable suspension by replacing wheel modules. Though it'd be interesting to see what the aftermarket comes up with and the consequences of that.
SigmundA 4y ago
Or a hub drive electric.
ActorNightly 4y ago
The issue is that there is a lot of other things that you have to consider when designing linkages. You have to make sure the system is directionally stable, and works with suspension. On forklifts, you don't really need to design for that.
jabroni_salad 4y ago
A lot of commercial operations (including usps actually) take a 'just dont ever reverse anytime anywhere' approach with their drivers to reduce accidents. I could definitely see this being hugely popular on work trucks and vans.
neuralRiot 4y ago
>being able to transmit the power there (like you need in a FWD application) is the hard part. I don’t think that’s very hard as forklifts or any other material- moving equipment don’t have the speed factor constraints so they can use wheel mounted hydraulic or electric motors.

0xbadcafebee 4y ago

> A tiny car already turns good. This device would gain us 1-2 more cars per parallel parked city block (if it took off). You simply can't get out of a parallel parked space without extra room due to steering angle.

prmoustache 4y ago
It is more about how much patience do you have than steering angle.
_carbyau_ 4y ago
I find it is mostly about whether I have the patience to find the perfect position/angle of approach, timing of turn etc. Much easier to simply drive along and find a slightly bigger park. Combine this with auto-park though. Could be nice.

hnov 4y ago

Maybe the thing to solve this will be individual electric motors that are mounted to subframe as to not add unsprung mass but articulate with the wheel somehow. Or more realistically instead of huge angle on undriven wheels, a bit of an angle on all wheels. It’s been done for a while, in the 90s on Japanese sports cars and now German luxo barges.

SigmundA 4y ago
Something like Ree [1] drives will probably be the future, minimizing unsprung while moving the drivetrain out to the wheels. I could see a top mounted motor driving a splined shaft that is also the kingpin with a sliding pinion driving wheel and you would have full 360 ability just have to keep friction down on the sliding pinion. Basically sliding pillar suspension with the pillar also being the driveshaft. Or just rotate the whole drive with suspension unit, just needs a much larger wheel well. 1. https://ree.auto/technology/ https://ree.auto/technology/
- baybal2 4y ago
- _carbyau_ 4y ago
  The Ree auto thing seems pretty cool. I hope they - or similar - comes to market. Having a car that can four wheel drive and steer with all the traction/anti-spin/abs etc smarts based on a modular component that can be replaced as required sounds great. Imagines upgrading to smart height adjustable suspension by replacing wheel modules. Though it'd be interesting to see what the aftermarket comes up with and the consequences of that.

SigmundA 4y ago

Or a hub drive electric.

ActorNightly 4y ago

The issue is that there is a lot of other things that you have to consider when designing linkages. You have to make sure the system is directionally stable, and works with suspension. On forklifts, you don't really need to design for that.

jabroni_salad 4y ago

A lot of commercial operations (including usps actually) take a 'just dont ever reverse anytime anywhere' approach with their drivers to reduce accidents. I could definitely see this being hugely popular on work trucks and vans.

neuralRiot 4y ago

>being able to transmit the power there (like you need in a FWD application) is the hard part. I don’t think that’s very hard as forklifts or any other material- moving equipment don’t have the speed factor constraints so they can use wheel mounted hydraulic or electric motors.