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On the other hand, if you own a house and don't miss payments, you are left alone to do what you want with the place and have no real risk of someone making you

On the other hand, if you own a house and don't miss payments, you are left alone to do what you want with the place and have no real risk of someone making you homeless on more or less a whim. If you're renting, your landlord can decide to sell your home out from under you, or evict you to have family move in, or renovate without your choice, or or or. You aren't really in control of your own home when you rent. Most rentals I've lived in wouldn't allow pets for instance. And you can't even choose the color of paint on the walls. It's a joke. So yeah. Borrow money from a bank, buy a house. Paint it whatever you want. Plant whatever flowers you want. Grow your own food. Have pets. Enjoy having actual choice and freedom about your surroundings. In the world of "we only rent" we limit our options by an extreme amount. This extends to cars too. You can't even change the tires on a rented car. And you're limited to only driving what is available for renting. What if I want a sports car? What if I want an SUV? What if I'm doing some yard work and need a truck, but none are available? Seriously if you're ok only ever renting, houses or vehicles, or anything else... How do you apply any kind of agency on your surroundings? You just live by other people's rules and accept the surroundings other people have crafted for you all the time? No thanks. People need stuff that is thier own.

EGreg 4y ago
Of course we should have a choice of buying a house with rented money. Just like we should have a choice to smoke cigarettes privately. I am just saying there is a lot of propaganda to get people to do stuff that is in the bankers’ and corporations interest. People are told en masse what they should be doing: go to college, get a job, pay off a mortgage, own a home. Lean in. Make partner at the firm. Slowly the public is waking up and millennials onwards don’t care so much. They even started to realize that college isn’t essential to an education in many fields, given how much can be learned on the Internet. At least, not the four year college. I wager most people on HN learned far more on the Internet than in college. People are starting to wake up to the idea that renting money from banks also locks you into slavery for decades, and prefer to be free.
- bluefirebrand 4y ago
  > I am just saying there is a lot of propaganda to get people to do stuff that is in the bankers’ and corporations interest I agree. And nothing fits this description more than "Banks and Corporations should own literally everything and everyone else should only ever rent what they need" If you can't see how "rent everything" plays exactly into the hands of banks and corporations, I don't know what to tell you. > People are starting to wake up to the idea that renting money from banks also locks you into slavery for decades, and prefer to be free. No, see. Slaves owned nothing and had to rely on their masters to provide for them. Slaves were never free, not after decades of work, not ever. Also slaves couldn't decide to terminate their mortgage early, sell their house and relocate. I don't know how you got these backwards ideas about the implications of renting versus ownership, but you really should give some really careful consideration to what you're giving up and what you're gaining if you choose not to own anything. Trust me, you aren't gaining freedom.
  - EGreg 4y ago
    Sorry if I wasn't clear. Of course you own things. But you think of them as "investments". You can own bitcoins or shares in the stock market. You can lend money to the government in recession times. You can own real estate if it's for investment purposes. But don't confuse that with needing to own things instead of renting them. If you borrowed $2 million and bought Bitcoin in 2012 you'd be a lot better off than if you bought a house cause "only a fool would want to pay off someone else's mortgage".

EGreg 4y ago

Of course we should have a choice of buying a house with rented money. Just like we should have a choice to smoke cigarettes privately. I am just saying there is a lot of propaganda to get people to do stuff that is in the bankers’ and corporations interest. People are told en masse what they should be doing: go to college, get a job, pay off a mortgage, own a home. Lean in. Make partner at the firm. Slowly the public is waking up and millennials onwards don’t care so much. They even started to realize that college isn’t essential to an education in many fields, given how much can be learned on the Internet. At least, not the four year college. I wager most people on HN learned far more on the Internet than in college. People are starting to wake up to the idea that renting money from banks also locks you into slavery for decades, and prefer to be free.

bluefirebrand 4y ago
> I am just saying there is a lot of propaganda to get people to do stuff that is in the bankers’ and corporations interest I agree. And nothing fits this description more than "Banks and Corporations should own literally everything and everyone else should only ever rent what they need" If you can't see how "rent everything" plays exactly into the hands of banks and corporations, I don't know what to tell you. > People are starting to wake up to the idea that renting money from banks also locks you into slavery for decades, and prefer to be free. No, see. Slaves owned nothing and had to rely on their masters to provide for them. Slaves were never free, not after decades of work, not ever. Also slaves couldn't decide to terminate their mortgage early, sell their house and relocate. I don't know how you got these backwards ideas about the implications of renting versus ownership, but you really should give some really careful consideration to what you're giving up and what you're gaining if you choose not to own anything. Trust me, you aren't gaining freedom.
- EGreg 4y ago
  Sorry if I wasn't clear. Of course you own things. But you think of them as "investments". You can own bitcoins or shares in the stock market. You can lend money to the government in recession times. You can own real estate if it's for investment purposes. But don't confuse that with needing to own things instead of renting them. If you borrowed $2 million and bought Bitcoin in 2012 you'd be a lot better off than if you bought a house cause "only a fool would want to pay off someone else's mortgage".