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I think weight of EVs is a "how long is a piece of string" discussion though. Which EV, and heavy compared to the average car, or compared to a feature equivale

by ehnto 4y ago

I think weight of EVs is a "how long is a piece of string" discussion though. Which EV, and heavy compared to the average car, or compared to a feature equivalent ICE car? Currently large luxury EVs are in favor in the American market, but that'll probably change once smaller affordable EVs hit the market and fill out demand amongst the more common vehicle price points. There's also no shortage of truly behemoth ICE vehicles getting about, so I'm not sure it counts as a practical con for EV's just yet.

enragedcacti 4y ago
I have been arguing that we should be comparing EVs to their highest volume ICE counterparts in their class/tier of vehicle since that is going to be the most common upgrade path as EVs get more available and affordable. Additionally, we should look at TCO rather than MSRP for tiers since maintenance costs are so different. If comparing similar size/TCO vehicles with high volume, The lightest Model 3 weighs more than the heaviest Camrys and Accords and the lightest Model Y weighs more than the heaviest CR-Vs and Rav-4s. On top of that, Tesla is way ahead of most EVs on weight with the 3/Y. Similar range vehicles like the polestar 2 or the Ioniq 5 are really heavy by comparison. In the US "capability" (even when we don't actually use it) is such a huge sell for many that I don't think were going to see a cultural shift to buying a smaller class of vehicle as you switch to EV. If anything Americans buy up as the operating costs go down.
- dahfizz 4y ago
  > In the US "capability" (even when we don't actually use it) is such a huge sell for many that I don't think were going to see a cultural shift to buying a smaller class of vehicle as you switch to EV. EVs mean more power, more AWD, more cargo room than comparable ICE vehicles. More "capability", as you say. At the same time, the reduced range discourages going for a larger, bloated vehicle you don't need. I can definitely imagine a lot of the families that have a crossover / smaller SUV now deciding to go with a sedan like the model 3. It has all the cargo storage they need and has the power / AWD they are used to.
  - enragedcacti 4y ago
    > I can definitely imagine a lot of the families that have a crossover / smaller SUV now deciding to go with a sedan like the model 3. It has all the cargo storage they need and has the power / AWD they are used to. I think you are right that some people on the margins may step down instead of staying flat or going up given features like frunk space (although model Y sales are beating 3 sales despite the reduced range and increased price), but AWD models of the 3 still weigh more than many AWD crossovers. Stepping down means a huge hit to total cargo volume and cargo height moving to a passthrough trunk vs a cargo area, and you also lose ground clearance that people think they will need for their yearly camping trip. American car purchases have been trending bigger and bigger and I don't think a frunk and fast 0-60s is enough to buck that trend.
Sebb767 4y ago
> Currently large luxury EVs are in favor in the American market, but that'll probably change once smaller affordable EVs hit the market and fill out demand amongst the more common vehicle price points Even among those lower price points, the trend seems to be towards heavy SUVs/CUVs. Also, it's pretty clear that an equivalent car will be heavier as EV compared to it's ICE variant - the added weight of the batteries is a lot more than the weight saved by the electric engines. This is especially true for lighter engines with smaller displacement. Now, of course there are some really small one or two seater EVs, but those also existed as ICEs and I don't think anything indicates that the majority of people will suddenly prefer smaller cars just because they buy an EV.
Spooky23 4y ago
Environmentally focused people will complain about a goat herder living in a yurt in the Himalayas. (The goat will kill vegetation, increasing erosion as well as depleting finite salt lick supply) There’s a con to all things and people passionate and communicative about any issue. You got to try to zoom out and understand the pro/con of different options. Good or bad, we have the society we have. I need to drive my kids to school. To do so safely, I need a large car. Would it be better to live in NYC and take the subway? Or have denser walkable communities? Sure. But in the meantime, the kids need to go to school.
kube-system 4y ago
EVs are unquestionably heavier than comparable gasoline cars. Even the Leaf is 3500-4000 lbs. Nissan sells three SUVs in the US lighter than the Leaf with the smallest battery.

by ehnto 4y ago

enragedcacti 4y ago

I have been arguing that we should be comparing EVs to their highest volume ICE counterparts in their class/tier of vehicle since that is going to be the most common upgrade path as EVs get more available and affordable. Additionally, we should look at TCO rather than MSRP for tiers since maintenance costs are so different. If comparing similar size/TCO vehicles with high volume, The lightest Model 3 weighs more than the heaviest Camrys and Accords and the lightest Model Y weighs more than the heaviest CR-Vs and Rav-4s. On top of that, Tesla is way ahead of most EVs on weight with the 3/Y. Similar range vehicles like the polestar 2 or the Ioniq 5 are really heavy by comparison. In the US "capability" (even when we don't actually use it) is such a huge sell for many that I don't think were going to see a cultural shift to buying a smaller class of vehicle as you switch to EV. If anything Americans buy up as the operating costs go down.

dahfizz 4y ago
> In the US "capability" (even when we don't actually use it) is such a huge sell for many that I don't think were going to see a cultural shift to buying a smaller class of vehicle as you switch to EV. EVs mean more power, more AWD, more cargo room than comparable ICE vehicles. More "capability", as you say. At the same time, the reduced range discourages going for a larger, bloated vehicle you don't need. I can definitely imagine a lot of the families that have a crossover / smaller SUV now deciding to go with a sedan like the model 3. It has all the cargo storage they need and has the power / AWD they are used to.
- enragedcacti 4y ago
  > I can definitely imagine a lot of the families that have a crossover / smaller SUV now deciding to go with a sedan like the model 3. It has all the cargo storage they need and has the power / AWD they are used to. I think you are right that some people on the margins may step down instead of staying flat or going up given features like frunk space (although model Y sales are beating 3 sales despite the reduced range and increased price), but AWD models of the 3 still weigh more than many AWD crossovers. Stepping down means a huge hit to total cargo volume and cargo height moving to a passthrough trunk vs a cargo area, and you also lose ground clearance that people think they will need for their yearly camping trip. American car purchases have been trending bigger and bigger and I don't think a frunk and fast 0-60s is enough to buck that trend.

Sebb767 4y ago

> Currently large luxury EVs are in favor in the American market, but that'll probably change once smaller affordable EVs hit the market and fill out demand amongst the more common vehicle price points Even among those lower price points, the trend seems to be towards heavy SUVs/CUVs. Also, it's pretty clear that an equivalent car will be heavier as EV compared to it's ICE variant - the added weight of the batteries is a lot more than the weight saved by the electric engines. This is especially true for lighter engines with smaller displacement. Now, of course there are some really small one or two seater EVs, but those also existed as ICEs and I don't think anything indicates that the majority of people will suddenly prefer smaller cars just because they buy an EV.

Spooky23 4y ago

Environmentally focused people will complain about a goat herder living in a yurt in the Himalayas. (The goat will kill vegetation, increasing erosion as well as depleting finite salt lick supply) There’s a con to all things and people passionate and communicative about any issue. You got to try to zoom out and understand the pro/con of different options. Good or bad, we have the society we have. I need to drive my kids to school. To do so safely, I need a large car. Would it be better to live in NYC and take the subway? Or have denser walkable communities? Sure. But in the meantime, the kids need to go to school.

kube-system 4y ago

EVs are unquestionably heavier than comparable gasoline cars. Even the Leaf is 3500-4000 lbs. Nissan sells three SUVs in the US lighter than the Leaf with the smallest battery.