5 ms·

> The two teams of researchers, from London and Glasgow, say infants exposed later than normal - because of Covid restrictions - missed out on some early immuni

> The two teams of researchers, from London and Glasgow, say infants exposed later than normal - because of Covid restrictions - missed out on some early immunity to: > - adenovirus, which normally causes colds and stomach upsets > - adeno-associated virus two, which normally causes no illness and requires a coinfecting "helper" virus - such as adenovirus - to replicate > That could explain why some developed the unusual and worrying liver complications.

sofixa 4y ago
At face value, it sounds doubtful. The kid in the article is 3 now, so we can assume he was 1 when the pandemic started. In former communist countries in Eastern Europe, maternity leave up to 3 years is not uncommon now, and was much less uncommon before the fall of the respective regime. Of course kids would be taken out and play with others at playgrounds even if there's no kindergarten and the mother takes care of the kid for 3 years, so it's not total isolation. But the pandemic hasn't resulted in total isolation either, there were schools/kindergartens that opened at least for some periods of time, playgrounds too (past the initial lockdowns which were pretty much full panic mode). Those kids didn't spend 2 years locked at home. So what's the difference? The masks? Did kids under 3 even wear masks?
- pjc50 4y ago
  Some of the kids would have been totally isolated, especially if they or a parent are otherwise classed as "clinically vulnerable". Or just very determined not to risk COVID.
- junofan 4y ago
  Sounds like the difference may be circulating adenovirus and AAV-2.
- INTPenis 4y ago
  - drcongo 4y ago
    Parent had quite clearly read the article, but I suspect you hadn't read all of their post before replying with whatever this is.
- h2odragon 4y ago
  I have doubts, too. There's lots of rural kids who didn't have much contact with others in infancy, pre-pandemic. Wouldn't this have shown up in them? Wouldn't it be part of the constant "advice for new parents" flood?
  - yonaguska 4y ago
    If you're rural enough to not have any infant contact, you're not talking about lots of kids, you're talking about a very small population. Even then, you're still probably going to be exposed to whatever community you are a part of. Very few people are actually "off the grid" in that respect.
    - ipaddr 4y ago
      Rural kids added up is a big enough population to see a difference in the stats.
- skeeter2020 4y ago
  When you go on maternity leave you don't stay in isolation with the kid, and the rest of your family continues to interact with many people as well. Copmare that to the past 2+ years where family units stayed isolated for long periods and then only interacted with masks, distancing and enhanced cleaning protocols. Chlidren globally most certainly avoided infections during this time, the stats for any children's hospital back this up.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > Those kids didn't spend 2 years locked at home. Plenty of kids spent two years locked at home. Plenty of middle-class adults with remote jobs spent two years locked at home, with weeks at a time literally not opening a door to the outside. In the two cases I know of relatively wealthy (upper-middle class developers) couples with remote jobs who had a child either in the year before or at the beginning of lockdown, they were 100x more isolated than the other people I knew. I blame this on the hysterical coverage of infant covid deaths on the news, when the national numbers of infant deaths were something you could have counted on your fingers. Every infant death was national news for some stupid, obvious reason. edit: And this was real isolation. People wouldn't allow relatives or parents to visit. They were more likely to get their mothers to move in and live with them than to let them visit (thinking about one of the two couples specifically.) This is the opposite of what normally happens with newborns.
  - viraptor 4y ago
    > with weeks at a time literally not opening a door to the outside That sounds very exaggerated. Do you think they stocked up on weeks worth of frozen food to survive?
    - berberous 4y ago
      Instacart dropped off at front door.
    - m_t 4y ago
      I think we can assume that pessimizer means that opening the door for the supermarket delivery doesn't count.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - vuln 4y ago
      Amazon has a feature that if the customer allows it the delivery person can open garage place items inside garage and close garage door.
    - 4y ago
sva_ 4y ago
I was actually wondering if COVID measures could effectively lead to people losing immunity to things our immune system usually has little trouble with. We evolved as social creatures being exposed to one another after all.
- 0134340 4y ago
  >We evolved *Still evolving. Many people every day die from being exposed to other people's microbes and mishaps, even those who are weened on it. I wouldn't immediately justify and jump to the 'not socializing is deadly' argument.
- bigbillheck 4y ago
  What might really mess up your immune system is getting covid.
  - vorticalbox 4y ago
    What evidence are you basing this on?
    - chitowneats 4y ago
      Junk pop science
- retrac 4y ago
  I'm reminded of how polio paralysis only really became a thing with improved hygiene. Polio, for some reason, almost never paralyzes newborns. Until the late 19th century it was implausible to not get infected shortly after birth, and then constantly have that immunity built up with reinfection. But toilets and sewers changed that, and a child might not catch it until much older, where paralysis is a risk. Similarly someone in adulthood might have little immunity left, get a huge exposure eventually, and then develop neurological symptoms.
  - Vecr 4y ago
    This is correct, not sure why it was downvoted. I think a major reason why people did not get very sick from poliovirus when very young is because of maternal IgG passed through the placenta before birth, and maternal IgA (edit, sorry, probably IgG through breast milk as well) passed through breast milk. This only lasts for six months and even by then it's waning, so children should get vaccinated with trivalent eIPV (enhanced Inactivated Polio Vaccine) as soon as their immune system is developed enough, probably by four months of age in enough cases to start giving the first dose. Some countries can't handle the cost and logistics of giving safe injections of eIPV, but you can't give multiple serotypes of OPV (Oral Polio Vaccine) at the same time because there is a dominance hierarchy that interferes with generating immunity against all serotypes, so at least one dose of eIPV should be used before starting OPV if at all possible. Polio has three serotypes without long-term protective cross reactivity, so you can't rely on natural infection to prevent future disease (possibly as a teenager or adult) caused by a different serotype.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

sofixa 4y ago

At face value, it sounds doubtful. The kid in the article is 3 now, so we can assume he was 1 when the pandemic started. In former communist countries in Eastern Europe, maternity leave up to 3 years is not uncommon now, and was much less uncommon before the fall of the respective regime. Of course kids would be taken out and play with others at playgrounds even if there's no kindergarten and the mother takes care of the kid for 3 years, so it's not total isolation. But the pandemic hasn't resulted in total isolation either, there were schools/kindergartens that opened at least for some periods of time, playgrounds too (past the initial lockdowns which were pretty much full panic mode). Those kids didn't spend 2 years locked at home. So what's the difference? The masks? Did kids under 3 even wear masks?

pjc50 4y ago
Some of the kids would have been totally isolated, especially if they or a parent are otherwise classed as "clinically vulnerable". Or just very determined not to risk COVID.
junofan 4y ago
Sounds like the difference may be circulating adenovirus and AAV-2.
INTPenis 4y ago
- drcongo 4y ago
  Parent had quite clearly read the article, but I suspect you hadn't read all of their post before replying with whatever this is.
h2odragon 4y ago
I have doubts, too. There's lots of rural kids who didn't have much contact with others in infancy, pre-pandemic. Wouldn't this have shown up in them? Wouldn't it be part of the constant "advice for new parents" flood?
- yonaguska 4y ago
  If you're rural enough to not have any infant contact, you're not talking about lots of kids, you're talking about a very small population. Even then, you're still probably going to be exposed to whatever community you are a part of. Very few people are actually "off the grid" in that respect.
  - ipaddr 4y ago
    Rural kids added up is a big enough population to see a difference in the stats.
skeeter2020 4y ago
When you go on maternity leave you don't stay in isolation with the kid, and the rest of your family continues to interact with many people as well. Copmare that to the past 2+ years where family units stayed isolated for long periods and then only interacted with masks, distancing and enhanced cleaning protocols. Chlidren globally most certainly avoided infections during this time, the stats for any children's hospital back this up.
pessimizer 4y ago
> Those kids didn't spend 2 years locked at home. Plenty of kids spent two years locked at home. Plenty of middle-class adults with remote jobs spent two years locked at home, with weeks at a time literally not opening a door to the outside. In the two cases I know of relatively wealthy (upper-middle class developers) couples with remote jobs who had a child either in the year before or at the beginning of lockdown, they were 100x more isolated than the other people I knew. I blame this on the hysterical coverage of infant covid deaths on the news, when the national numbers of infant deaths were something you could have counted on your fingers. Every infant death was national news for some stupid, obvious reason. edit: And this was real isolation. People wouldn't allow relatives or parents to visit. They were more likely to get their mothers to move in and live with them than to let them visit (thinking about one of the two couples specifically.) This is the opposite of what normally happens with newborns.
- viraptor 4y ago
  > with weeks at a time literally not opening a door to the outside That sounds very exaggerated. Do you think they stocked up on weeks worth of frozen food to survive?
  - berberous 4y ago
    Instacart dropped off at front door.
  - m_t 4y ago
    I think we can assume that pessimizer means that opening the door for the supermarket delivery doesn't count.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - vuln 4y ago
    Amazon has a feature that if the customer allows it the delivery person can open garage place items inside garage and close garage door.
  - 4y ago

sva_ 4y ago

I was actually wondering if COVID measures could effectively lead to people losing immunity to things our immune system usually has little trouble with. We evolved as social creatures being exposed to one another after all.

0134340 4y ago
>We evolved *Still evolving. Many people every day die from being exposed to other people's microbes and mishaps, even those who are weened on it. I wouldn't immediately justify and jump to the 'not socializing is deadly' argument.
bigbillheck 4y ago
What might really mess up your immune system is getting covid.
- vorticalbox 4y ago
  What evidence are you basing this on?
  - chitowneats 4y ago
    Junk pop science
retrac 4y ago
I'm reminded of how polio paralysis only really became a thing with improved hygiene. Polio, for some reason, almost never paralyzes newborns. Until the late 19th century it was implausible to not get infected shortly after birth, and then constantly have that immunity built up with reinfection. But toilets and sewers changed that, and a child might not catch it until much older, where paralysis is a risk. Similarly someone in adulthood might have little immunity left, get a huge exposure eventually, and then develop neurological symptoms.
- Vecr 4y ago
  This is correct, not sure why it was downvoted. I think a major reason why people did not get very sick from poliovirus when very young is because of maternal IgG passed through the placenta before birth, and maternal IgA (edit, sorry, probably IgG through breast milk as well) passed through breast milk. This only lasts for six months and even by then it's waning, so children should get vaccinated with trivalent eIPV (enhanced Inactivated Polio Vaccine) as soon as their immune system is developed enough, probably by four months of age in enough cases to start giving the first dose. Some countries can't handle the cost and logistics of giving safe injections of eIPV, but you can't give multiple serotypes of OPV (Oral Polio Vaccine) at the same time because there is a dominance hierarchy that interferes with generating immunity against all serotypes, so at least one dose of eIPV should be used before starting OPV if at all possible. Polio has three serotypes without long-term protective cross reactivity, so you can't rely on natural infection to prevent future disease (possibly as a teenager or adult) caused by a different serotype.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]