8 ms·

How the Path to Home Ownership Runs Through Mexico

41 points by thomasjudge 4y ago

nine_zeros 4y ago
Since the pandemic I have claimed that a lot of Americans will discover the power of the dollar soon, when they realize that a better QoL is just a passport and a flight away. The current inflation, rate hikes and the tug of war between buyers and sellers will only expedite this knowledge. The common person in America just cannot win in this casino.
- kmeisthax 4y ago
  Unfortunately American passports are not guaranteed immigration vehicles. Even countries with very close economic ties[0] and no language barrier are still a challenge to get labor market access into; and I can totally see that blossoming into full-on NIMBYism-but-for-people if this were to become mainstream. [0] EU excluded, mostly because the EU was very adamant on tying trade liberalization to immigration liberalization.
  - AinderS 4y ago
    > the EU was very adamant on tying trade liberalization to immigration liberalization. Why was this the case? Do you have more background information on it? I've heard little about this, except the end result of free movement within the EU.
- GoToThePubMate 4y ago
  > A better QoL is just a passport and a flight away. Ummmmmm And an immigration visa.
  - harambae 4y ago
    Not that I endorse spreading America's housing problems to the world, but many countries in southeast asia and africa will effectively allow you to get away with renewing your visa every 6 months in perpetuity. I knew one guy whose only legal requirement was to leave the country twice a year, for a day, in order to come back for another 6 months. But he didn't even do this - he went one step lazier and hired someone else to run his papers to the border and back every 6 months. It's a country-by-country thing, and maybe they've closed some loopholes, but I'd be shocked if a wealthy American can't still get away with this in dozens of poorer nations.
    - user-one1 4y ago
      You can get a residence permit in Uruguay just with your birth certificate and your passport. Then you need to prove that you have the means to sustain yourself and that's it, no more requirements for moving here. Also, no taxes on software exports ;)
      - a2tech 4y ago
        Whats the land buying situation like and pricing? A lot of countries have weird rules around foreigners buying property.
        user-one1 4y ago
        As far as I know, anyone can buy land/properties here. I think the only restriction is that foreigners are not allowed to buy land up to 30km from the border or something like that. Prices are way cheaper than in the US but probably more expensive than other south american countries.
        notch656a 4y ago
        Uruguay always interest me but I heard it is basically impossible to naturalize as the judge holds evidence of ties to Uruguay to an impossibly high standard. I guess that makes sense since Uruguay is a very open nation with easy permanent residence, closely guarding citizenship allows you to hold priveleges of your citizens dear while grasping the benefits of open borders to goods and labor.
    - notdang 4y ago
      You can never live a full life like this. Without a residency permit you won't open a bank account, won't buy any property, won't by a car for example, renting outside Airbnb is difficult, won't be using any governmental services.
  - nine_zeros 4y ago
    The trick is to go into a country, stay there for the max allowed duration. Then you fly back to US or visit another country for a month and go back to your base country. You can do this with Visa-on-arrival at most countries with a US passport.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      Yeah that and there's tons of countries where it's easy to get a long-term visa or immigration status that doesn't allow you to work. I can also name plenty of countries where as long as you don't work (and even possibly if you do) your chances of getting deported as an illegal immigrant are about zero unless you've done something to really piss off the community. One of the more amusing is Argentina -- you can literally show up on day one, file a case for citizenship, and your court docket serves as 'citizenship' for prevention of deportation. In the USA, if you don't seek employment and stay out of the 100 mile 'constitution-free' zone and live in a state that doesn't link the criminal justice system to immigration (I think California is an example) I think the chance of getting caught as an illegal immigrant are about zero unless you catch a felony or something.
- some_random 4y ago
  It's famously easy to uproot one's entire life and permanently move to another country.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    It’s not for everyone, but it works for many. I am astounded by how many folks I run into in the states planning to move to Portugal, Spain, Mexico, etc. Definitely more than pre pandemic.
  - drchopchop 4y ago
    Extremely easy. You just have to navigate a maze of foreign visa requirements, have a large amount of money, no need to work, learn a foreign language, get your partner/dependents to agree, and be separated from all your existing friends/family. Why don't more people do it?
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      You are somewhat overblowing the situation. Mexican financial solvency requirements are fairly low to get temporary or permanent residency. I applied for and received permanent residency for our entire family with 12 months of statements of a reasonably sized 401k. Portugal’s D7 visa requires $9k/year in passive income for a single person, $18k for a family of four (these numbers are likely lower now with the EUR approaching parity with the USD). These are not crazy numbers to accomplish. They’ll also accept a remote job if your company attests that they supports you doing so. I learned this from casual reading of Facebook groups and a gaggle of Reddit subreddits, confirming ground truth with immigration attorneys. It is not one click, for sure, but these hurdles are nothing tremendous to overcome for a functioning adult. It is a reasonable path for people who have been priced out of a good life in the US by way of its economic and policy configuration. If the situation isn’t going to improve, you shop for a better jurisdiction to exist in.
      - paulryanrogers 4y ago
        > I applied for and received permanent residency for our entire family with 12 months of statements of a reasonably sized 401k. How common is it for folks to have almost half a million in the bank?!
martzy13 4y ago
https://archive.ph/EOHxq https://archive.ph/EOHxq
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
And what's the path to home ownership for Mexicans being priced out by Americans? I'm not Mexican nor American, but I'm against this economic neocolonialism where rich countries get to export their self inflicted housing issues by pricing out the locals in cheaper countries who, through no fault of their own, get the short end of the stick by means of capital leverage, or lack thereof. Laws should be passed in each county to protect the locals from this, but I rarely see this happening as the home owners in each county enjoy watching their assets boom.
- worker_person 4y ago
  Africa?
- slavboj 4y ago
  Historically it has been to move to the US for higher wages. This happened for instance when US ag subsidies combined with opening Mexico's ag market priced out small farmers.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  I've been told that's NIMBYism, so any Mexicans forced to move are actually the oppressors.
- Green_man 4y ago
  Housing isn't finite, if Americans are willing to spend money to increase the value of Mexican housing, Mexican builders/government can build more housing to take advantage of the increased demand. I don't see much reason why any country would need to ban foreign investment, especially when supply is artificially constrained by unjustifiable regulation (true of western US and Canada, no idea if true of Mexico)
  - watwut 4y ago
    How come that such building boom did not happened in America in the first place? It is not like America would lack land.
hellohowareu 4y ago
How timely for me personally. I am about to live in the Puerto Vallarta area for a while. I work remotely, and saving for cash for property.
wing-_-nuts 4y ago
One thing that I think isn't treated seriously enough is the sheer amount of violence in mexico. The article downplays it; says it's only an issue with those involved in the drug trade, or in certain neighborhoods. Go watch 'cartel land'. Mexico is basically a failed narco-state in many provinces. You'll forgive me if I'd rather not live there. Hell, I have concerns that prevented me from traveling there for the 2024 eclipse because the region in question is under the control of the Sinaloa cartel.
- colpabar 4y ago
  Not even just violence - corruption seems pretty bad as well. I personally know two different people who were extorted by the police there, and when I asked by friend who is from there, she said stuff like that happens all the time.
- jimt1234 4y ago
  I really dislike this attitude. I think it's over-hyped in the US media. Yes, there's violence in Mexico. But, as I always say: As long as you're not looking for cocaine or prostitutes, you'll be fine. I've been going to Mexico, including Tijuana, for 30 years, probably between 500 and 1000 times. I've seen crime, but never any sort of narco violence or mass shootings or whatever. My biggest concern in Mexico is getting shaken down by the police, and well, breathing - the air quality is shit as soon as you cross the border.
  - wing-_-nuts 4y ago
    My dude, they kill people and hang them from bridges in northern mexico. They kidnapped a school bus of kids and slaughtered them. I realize the US has violence as well, but at least it's usually one deranged guy, or two gangbangers that have a beef. In mexico it's organized violence. This isn't the work of one crazy guy, it's the work of an organization which does it to terrorize the local population. Seriously. Go look at the US state department guidelines for travel to various Mexican provinces. This is not just something that's overhyped in the media. If the state department is telling you that you should not visit large swaths of mexico, that's a stone sober assessment based on real evidence. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/...
jdmg94 4y ago
this shit is colonialism, and instead of Americans staying and fixing their country they'll just go ruin somewhere else
- notch656a 4y ago
  Is it colonialism when Mexicans come to America? Personally I'm happy our neighbors are here and I hope to see even more intermingling of Mexicans to America as we share a lot of cultural values and I see the Hispanic community as a source of enrichment to our nation. Mexico allows foreigners to buy property, and with a special bank trust even border property. Even going into ghetto areas of border towns I have been treated very well by the Mexican locals and they never treated me like they felt I was ruining their community by experiencing it with them. Seriously, go to a border town and find a run down neighborhood, sit at the bar and have an abuela serve you up a cerveza. Then report back whether you are treated well or as a ruiner of the community. My experience in latin america is you'll be treated by how you act as an individual.
- eddof13 4y ago
  I'll be okay with this as long as the opposite stops as well, prevent the immigrants from coming to the US
etskinner 4y ago
https://archive.ph/EOHxq https://archive.ph/EOHxq

41 points by thomasjudge 4y ago

Since the pandemic I have claimed that a lot of Americans will discover the power of the dollar soon, when they realize that a better QoL is just a passport and a flight away. The current inflation, rate hikes and the tug of war between buyers and sellers will only expedite this knowledge. The common person in America just cannot win in this casino.

kmeisthax 4y ago
Unfortunately American passports are not guaranteed immigration vehicles. Even countries with very close economic ties[0] and no language barrier are still a challenge to get labor market access into; and I can totally see that blossoming into full-on NIMBYism-but-for-people if this were to become mainstream. [0] EU excluded, mostly because the EU was very adamant on tying trade liberalization to immigration liberalization.
- AinderS 4y ago
  > the EU was very adamant on tying trade liberalization to immigration liberalization. Why was this the case? Do you have more background information on it? I've heard little about this, except the end result of free movement within the EU.
GoToThePubMate 4y ago
> A better QoL is just a passport and a flight away. Ummmmmm And an immigration visa.
- harambae 4y ago
  Not that I endorse spreading America's housing problems to the world, but many countries in southeast asia and africa will effectively allow you to get away with renewing your visa every 6 months in perpetuity. I knew one guy whose only legal requirement was to leave the country twice a year, for a day, in order to come back for another 6 months. But he didn't even do this - he went one step lazier and hired someone else to run his papers to the border and back every 6 months. It's a country-by-country thing, and maybe they've closed some loopholes, but I'd be shocked if a wealthy American can't still get away with this in dozens of poorer nations.
  - user-one1 4y ago
    You can get a residence permit in Uruguay just with your birth certificate and your passport. Then you need to prove that you have the means to sustain yourself and that's it, no more requirements for moving here. Also, no taxes on software exports ;)
    - a2tech 4y ago
      Whats the land buying situation like and pricing? A lot of countries have weird rules around foreigners buying property.
      - user-one1 4y ago
        As far as I know, anyone can buy land/properties here. I think the only restriction is that foreigners are not allowed to buy land up to 30km from the border or something like that. Prices are way cheaper than in the US but probably more expensive than other south american countries.
        notch656a 4y ago
        Uruguay always interest me but I heard it is basically impossible to naturalize as the judge holds evidence of ties to Uruguay to an impossibly high standard. I guess that makes sense since Uruguay is a very open nation with easy permanent residence, closely guarding citizenship allows you to hold priveleges of your citizens dear while grasping the benefits of open borders to goods and labor.
  - notdang 4y ago
    You can never live a full life like this. Without a residency permit you won't open a bank account, won't buy any property, won't by a car for example, renting outside Airbnb is difficult, won't be using any governmental services.
- nine_zeros 4y ago
  The trick is to go into a country, stay there for the max allowed duration. Then you fly back to US or visit another country for a month and go back to your base country. You can do this with Visa-on-arrival at most countries with a US passport.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    Yeah that and there's tons of countries where it's easy to get a long-term visa or immigration status that doesn't allow you to work. I can also name plenty of countries where as long as you don't work (and even possibly if you do) your chances of getting deported as an illegal immigrant are about zero unless you've done something to really piss off the community. One of the more amusing is Argentina -- you can literally show up on day one, file a case for citizenship, and your court docket serves as 'citizenship' for prevention of deportation. In the USA, if you don't seek employment and stay out of the 100 mile 'constitution-free' zone and live in a state that doesn't link the criminal justice system to immigration (I think California is an example) I think the chance of getting caught as an illegal immigrant are about zero unless you catch a felony or something.
some_random 4y ago
It's famously easy to uproot one's entire life and permanently move to another country.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  It’s not for everyone, but it works for many. I am astounded by how many folks I run into in the states planning to move to Portugal, Spain, Mexico, etc. Definitely more than pre pandemic.
- drchopchop 4y ago
  Extremely easy. You just have to navigate a maze of foreign visa requirements, have a large amount of money, no need to work, learn a foreign language, get your partner/dependents to agree, and be separated from all your existing friends/family. Why don't more people do it?
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    You are somewhat overblowing the situation. Mexican financial solvency requirements are fairly low to get temporary or permanent residency. I applied for and received permanent residency for our entire family with 12 months of statements of a reasonably sized 401k. Portugal’s D7 visa requires $9k/year in passive income for a single person, $18k for a family of four (these numbers are likely lower now with the EUR approaching parity with the USD). These are not crazy numbers to accomplish. They’ll also accept a remote job if your company attests that they supports you doing so. I learned this from casual reading of Facebook groups and a gaggle of Reddit subreddits, confirming ground truth with immigration attorneys. It is not one click, for sure, but these hurdles are nothing tremendous to overcome for a functioning adult. It is a reasonable path for people who have been priced out of a good life in the US by way of its economic and policy configuration. If the situation isn’t going to improve, you shop for a better jurisdiction to exist in.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      > I applied for and received permanent residency for our entire family with 12 months of statements of a reasonably sized 401k. How common is it for folks to have almost half a million in the bank?!

martzy13 4y ago

https://archive.ph/EOHxq https://archive.ph/EOHxq

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

And what's the path to home ownership for Mexicans being priced out by Americans? I'm not Mexican nor American, but I'm against this economic neocolonialism where rich countries get to export their self inflicted housing issues by pricing out the locals in cheaper countries who, through no fault of their own, get the short end of the stick by means of capital leverage, or lack thereof. Laws should be passed in each county to protect the locals from this, but I rarely see this happening as the home owners in each county enjoy watching their assets boom.

worker_person 4y ago
Africa?
slavboj 4y ago
Historically it has been to move to the US for higher wages. This happened for instance when US ag subsidies combined with opening Mexico's ag market priced out small farmers.
pessimizer 4y ago
I've been told that's NIMBYism, so any Mexicans forced to move are actually the oppressors.
Green_man 4y ago
Housing isn't finite, if Americans are willing to spend money to increase the value of Mexican housing, Mexican builders/government can build more housing to take advantage of the increased demand. I don't see much reason why any country would need to ban foreign investment, especially when supply is artificially constrained by unjustifiable regulation (true of western US and Canada, no idea if true of Mexico)
- watwut 4y ago
  How come that such building boom did not happened in America in the first place? It is not like America would lack land.

hellohowareu 4y ago

How timely for me personally. I am about to live in the Puerto Vallarta area for a while. I work remotely, and saving for cash for property.

wing-_-nuts 4y ago

One thing that I think isn't treated seriously enough is the sheer amount of violence in mexico. The article downplays it; says it's only an issue with those involved in the drug trade, or in certain neighborhoods. Go watch 'cartel land'. Mexico is basically a failed narco-state in many provinces. You'll forgive me if I'd rather not live there. Hell, I have concerns that prevented me from traveling there for the 2024 eclipse because the region in question is under the control of the Sinaloa cartel.

colpabar 4y ago
Not even just violence - corruption seems pretty bad as well. I personally know two different people who were extorted by the police there, and when I asked by friend who is from there, she said stuff like that happens all the time.
jimt1234 4y ago
I really dislike this attitude. I think it's over-hyped in the US media. Yes, there's violence in Mexico. But, as I always say: As long as you're not looking for cocaine or prostitutes, you'll be fine. I've been going to Mexico, including Tijuana, for 30 years, probably between 500 and 1000 times. I've seen crime, but never any sort of narco violence or mass shootings or whatever. My biggest concern in Mexico is getting shaken down by the police, and well, breathing - the air quality is shit as soon as you cross the border.
- wing-_-nuts 4y ago
  My dude, they kill people and hang them from bridges in northern mexico. They kidnapped a school bus of kids and slaughtered them. I realize the US has violence as well, but at least it's usually one deranged guy, or two gangbangers that have a beef. In mexico it's organized violence. This isn't the work of one crazy guy, it's the work of an organization which does it to terrorize the local population. Seriously. Go look at the US state department guidelines for travel to various Mexican provinces. This is not just something that's overhyped in the media. If the state department is telling you that you should not visit large swaths of mexico, that's a stone sober assessment based on real evidence. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/...

jdmg94 4y ago

this shit is colonialism, and instead of Americans staying and fixing their country they'll just go ruin somewhere else

notch656a 4y ago
Is it colonialism when Mexicans come to America? Personally I'm happy our neighbors are here and I hope to see even more intermingling of Mexicans to America as we share a lot of cultural values and I see the Hispanic community as a source of enrichment to our nation. Mexico allows foreigners to buy property, and with a special bank trust even border property. Even going into ghetto areas of border towns I have been treated very well by the Mexican locals and they never treated me like they felt I was ruining their community by experiencing it with them. Seriously, go to a border town and find a run down neighborhood, sit at the bar and have an abuela serve you up a cerveza. Then report back whether you are treated well or as a ruiner of the community. My experience in latin america is you'll be treated by how you act as an individual.
eddof13 4y ago
I'll be okay with this as long as the opposite stops as well, prevent the immigrants from coming to the US

etskinner 4y ago

https://archive.ph/EOHxq https://archive.ph/EOHxq