3 ms·

I think the entire point of this is Amazon doesn't have a piracy problem. You have a piracy problem. We just have this bizarre corporatocracy where if you infri

I think the entire point of this is Amazon doesn't have a piracy problem. You have a piracy problem. We just have this bizarre corporatocracy where if you infringe Amazon's copyright, they're going to fuck you up. If you Amazon infringes your copyright, tough luck. Maybe if you're lucky they'll fix it at some point after they've already fucked your business. It's this bizarre attitude in the US that the bigger and more powerful you are, the less responsible you are for anything you do wrong. Amazon's approach on this is clear anti-competitive behavior. You get better protection from being pirated on their platform only if you distribute with them.

candiodari 4y ago
Perhaps a bit less dramatic: middlemen (except in egregious cases) are not considered guilty. They're just middlemen. Amazon is not a bookseller, they're simply selling website, payment handling, stocking, even book printing ... services to the real bookseller, and that real bookseller is the one infringing copyright. We just need to tighten what would be reasonable standard for middlemen to assure copyright is not violated.
- dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
  > We just need This "just" hasn't happened for several years, so what makes you think anyone will do anything about it?
- buran77 4y ago
  I guess it all depends on how interested someone is in the specific problem. The war on drugs makes a mule an accomplice. The war on piracy makes a hosting platform an accomplice. Particularly when they are aware of the issue and don't act. Since Amazon would clearly act if their own products or brands were impacted it stands to reason that not only are they complicit in committing that crime and providing assistance but also that they abuse their position to selectively enforce rules. Of course there's no incentive to do anything to change this particularly in lobby driven parts of the world where the benefit of the company is paramount. After all the company is the one filling the pockets of legislators and judges.
- jfim 4y ago
  You could apply the same logic to the pirate bay, they're just providing a place to browse torrent files but they're not hosting any of the infringing files themselves, just metadata about them. The issue with Amazon is not that their services can enable copyright violation (any copy machine can do that), but that even if they're notified of such violations, they don't act on them in a decisive way. I doubt anyone would really complain about book piracy if authors could say "hey this book is in print from so and so publisher, so don't allow third parties other than the publisher to sell it" and Amazon acted on it. Or if authors had a way to say "hey Amazon I'm the owner of this ISBN so other formats for this book need my approval to be listed."
- garyfirestorm 4y ago
  Just exactly like those warez bb forums. We are not responsible for the posts there’s no pirated material on our website.
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  Under 17 USC 501, if Amazon are selling, distributing, or importing works that are infringing, they're subject to civil and criminal liabilities. Amazon also operate a Print On Demand service, which would make them the publisher as well, for PoD products: https://www.amazon.com/Print-Demand-Book-Publishing-Self-Publishing-ebook/dp/B001CL585I https://www.amazon.com/Print-Demand-Book-Publishing-Self-Pub...
  - dredmorbius 4y ago
    Erm ... I'm not sure about PoD. The link is not about Amazon itself providing the service, though I suspect it may.
- JohnHaugeland 4y ago
  Not sure why you believe this. It's 100% false. If someone knowingly sells fraudulent or counterfeit goods, no, they're not "just a middleman."
EarlKing 4y ago
"Speaking of things controversial, is it true that there is a marijuana problem here in Vietnam?" "No, it's not a problem. Everybody has it."
- Guthur 4y ago
  I'm sure it doesn't make the cartels happy though, oh wait. ..
- belter 4y ago
  "- Are there any Cannibals in this Island? - Not anymore, we eat yesterday the last one..."
invalidname 4y ago
As an author who will sell less as a result. I have a problem. Hence less incentive to write additional books so if the same happens to an author you happen to read...
tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
Wouldn't the obvious solution be to sue Amazon in small claims for the price of the sold books? Or are they protected from liability by the DMCA?
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  That, and/or press for a criminal case. I suspect there's language in Amazon's sale / author contract that tries to limit this. Given the widespread nature of the abuse, puncturing such terms should be reasonably viable. 17 USC 106 lists among exclusive rights: (3) to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending; https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106 And § 501 - Infringement of copyright: (a) Anyone who violates any of the exclusive rights of the copyright owner as provided by sections 106 through 122 or of the author as provided in section 106A(a), or who imports copies or phonorecords into the United States in violation of section 602, is an infringer of the copyright or right of the author, as the case may be. For purposes of this chapter (other than section 506), any reference to copyright shall be deemed to include the rights conferred by section 106A(a). As used in this subsection, the term “anyone” includes any State, any instrumentality of a State, and any officer or employee of a State or instrumentality of a State acting in his or her official capacity. Any State, and any such instrumentality, officer, or employee, shall be subject to the provisions of this title in the same manner and to the same extent as any nongovernmental entity. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/501 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/501 There's a strong case for criminal liability under § 506 - Criminal offenses, see: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/506 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/506
- JohnHaugeland 4y ago
  They'll just refund you. Almost nobody ever notices.

candiodari 4y ago

Perhaps a bit less dramatic: middlemen (except in egregious cases) are not considered guilty. They're just middlemen. Amazon is not a bookseller, they're simply selling website, payment handling, stocking, even book printing ... services to the real bookseller, and that real bookseller is the one infringing copyright. We just need to tighten what would be reasonable standard for middlemen to assure copyright is not violated.

dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
> We just need This "just" hasn't happened for several years, so what makes you think anyone will do anything about it?
buran77 4y ago
I guess it all depends on how interested someone is in the specific problem. The war on drugs makes a mule an accomplice. The war on piracy makes a hosting platform an accomplice. Particularly when they are aware of the issue and don't act. Since Amazon would clearly act if their own products or brands were impacted it stands to reason that not only are they complicit in committing that crime and providing assistance but also that they abuse their position to selectively enforce rules. Of course there's no incentive to do anything to change this particularly in lobby driven parts of the world where the benefit of the company is paramount. After all the company is the one filling the pockets of legislators and judges.
jfim 4y ago
You could apply the same logic to the pirate bay, they're just providing a place to browse torrent files but they're not hosting any of the infringing files themselves, just metadata about them. The issue with Amazon is not that their services can enable copyright violation (any copy machine can do that), but that even if they're notified of such violations, they don't act on them in a decisive way. I doubt anyone would really complain about book piracy if authors could say "hey this book is in print from so and so publisher, so don't allow third parties other than the publisher to sell it" and Amazon acted on it. Or if authors had a way to say "hey Amazon I'm the owner of this ISBN so other formats for this book need my approval to be listed."
garyfirestorm 4y ago
Just exactly like those warez bb forums. We are not responsible for the posts there’s no pirated material on our website.
dredmorbius 4y ago
Under 17 USC 501, if Amazon are selling, distributing, or importing works that are infringing, they're subject to civil and criminal liabilities. Amazon also operate a Print On Demand service, which would make them the publisher as well, for PoD products: https://www.amazon.com/Print-Demand-Book-Publishing-Self-Publishing-ebook/dp/B001CL585I https://www.amazon.com/Print-Demand-Book-Publishing-Self-Pub...
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  Erm ... I'm not sure about PoD. The link is not about Amazon itself providing the service, though I suspect it may.
JohnHaugeland 4y ago
Not sure why you believe this. It's 100% false. If someone knowingly sells fraudulent or counterfeit goods, no, they're not "just a middleman."

EarlKing 4y ago

"Speaking of things controversial, is it true that there is a marijuana problem here in Vietnam?" "No, it's not a problem. Everybody has it."

Guthur 4y ago
I'm sure it doesn't make the cartels happy though, oh wait. ..
belter 4y ago
"- Are there any Cannibals in this Island? - Not anymore, we eat yesterday the last one..."

invalidname 4y ago

As an author who will sell less as a result. I have a problem. Hence less incentive to write additional books so if the same happens to an author you happen to read...

tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago

Wouldn't the obvious solution be to sue Amazon in small claims for the price of the sold books? Or are they protected from liability by the DMCA?

dredmorbius 4y ago
That, and/or press for a criminal case. I suspect there's language in Amazon's sale / author contract that tries to limit this. Given the widespread nature of the abuse, puncturing such terms should be reasonably viable. 17 USC 106 lists among exclusive rights: (3) to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending; https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106 And § 501 - Infringement of copyright: (a) Anyone who violates any of the exclusive rights of the copyright owner as provided by sections 106 through 122 or of the author as provided in section 106A(a), or who imports copies or phonorecords into the United States in violation of section 602, is an infringer of the copyright or right of the author, as the case may be. For purposes of this chapter (other than section 506), any reference to copyright shall be deemed to include the rights conferred by section 106A(a). As used in this subsection, the term “anyone” includes any State, any instrumentality of a State, and any officer or employee of a State or instrumentality of a State acting in his or her official capacity. Any State, and any such instrumentality, officer, or employee, shall be subject to the provisions of this title in the same manner and to the same extent as any nongovernmental entity. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/501 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/501 There's a strong case for criminal liability under § 506 - Criminal offenses, see: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/506 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/506
JohnHaugeland 4y ago
They'll just refund you. Almost nobody ever notices.