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This is what I wish th EU did. Instead of grand posturing and spending billions of EUR on moonshot projects and unaccountable policy projects, I wish they broug

This is what I wish th EU did. Instead of grand posturing and spending billions of EUR on moonshot projects and unaccountable policy projects, I wish they brought all EU nations together and spend the billions needed to do two things that I think would have quite the effect. 1. Build out a robust and modern electric grid that spans EU without country wise policy restrictions, allowing distributed domestic generation of power such as solar roofs, windmills in farms etc, while the existing nuclear reactors supply base load power. Any new renewable energy project should simply be plugged and play. 2. Build out a similar high speed rail network that doesn't have country wise signalling/power/track changes such that one does not have to worry about "connecting" Dutch, French, German, Swiss and Italian trains on a trip across.. Instead a singular train operator being able to run a train that seamlessly runs all the way through without changes. Also, while at it, make the train operators compete on EUR/KM of operation so that the costs become competitive with intra-EU flights. We are missing leaders with long term thinking. Every politician I hear keeps trying to say what their voters want to hear for the immediate term and get elected to office.

vladvasiliu 4y ago
> Instead a singular train operator being able to run a train that seamlessly runs all the way through without changes Isn't that the case already? Or are the high-speed trains that go from Paris to Belgium / Netherlands / Italy / Spain just regular speed outside of France? I'm quite sure, at least the ones going North (UK/BE/NL) use the same tracks as the trains doing Paris-Lille (city in the North of France, close to Belgium). > Also, while at it, make the train operators compete on EUR/KM of operation so that the costs become competitive with intra-EU flights. I don't know if that's such a good thing. There are routes that are much more profitable than others. It's my understanding that, at least in theory, the profitable ones "subsidize" the others, such that people can actually use them. I don't think that having new companies showing up on the Paris-Lyon line, for example, will be a net positive for the country as a whole (that's by far the most profitable line in France). Or maybe force the new ones to serve all the other lines? I don't know what the best solution would be.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  > Isn't that the case already? Or are the high-speed trains that go from Paris to Belgium / Netherlands / Italy / Spain just regular speed outside of France? I'm quite sure, at least the ones going North (UK/BE/NL) use the same tracks as the trains doing Paris-Lille (city in the North of France, close to Belgium). Yes they are, but that's only the high speed lines. In the Netherlands we have just one, towards Belgium and it's construction was extremely costly and troublesome. It has not delivered on it's promises, one planned service has been within the first year. Towards the East we don't have any, and yes the ICEs from there run at slow speeds in the Netherlands.
- reacharavindh 4y ago
  Sure, there are some NightJet services by OBB that cover routes like Amsterdam - Vienna. But, that's far too few and mostly covers Vienna to X. But, my hope is that EU leaders would take pride in connecting all major cities to the EU fast rail "grid" so that you can travel from anywhere to anywhere without changing connections just like cheap flights these days. Amsterdam - Innsbruck (for Ski trips) Amsterdam - Florence Amsterdam - Berlin Amsterdam - Barcelona Amsterdam - Copenhagen are all examples that could be direct trains that run frequently such that taking a flight for these should feel like a chore. Of course, I am listing all from Amsterdam because that's where I live. My point is a Rail grid network criss crossing Europe would be super beneficial to the society to remove many cars from the road and many planes from the sky. Heck, these routes would bring added benefit of subsidising freight transport across these population centers. Yes, EUR/KM operation might come with its flaws. But, if that rail grid is treated as essential infrastructure, and business are allowed to run their train services not the grid competing with each other, it will be a revival of the golden era of trains, and public transport.
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    I do think that would be a great idea. I absolutely hate taking the plane because of the whole airport circus, so would definitely support such an initiative. I think that governments might also buy into that, at least to a point. For example, in France, they passed a law looking to ban very short flights for which a rail alternative no longer than a few hours exists (four, I think).
mschuster91 4y ago
> Build out a similar high speed rail network that doesn't have country wise signalling/power/track changes such that one does not have to worry about "connecting" Dutch, French, German, Swiss and Italian trains on a trip across. All of Europe except Spain and Ukraine/Russia/Belarus runs on standard gauge anyway, and at least in Spain every new or renovated track is being laid with dual-position sleepers so that they can easily be retrofitted. Modern locomotives can use all power systems (25 kV, 15 kV AC, 3 kV DC) and the major security systems. For signalling, new tracks at least in the high speed sector are all prepared for ETCS. The only thing needing exchange at borders today is the locomotive driver, and even that is not necessary if the driver speaks the language of the country and knows the signalling system there (e.g. it's pretty common that freight train drivers run the trip from Germany to the Netherlands and back).
- jsnell 4y ago
  Finland uses 5 ft gauge, Estonia a mix of 5 ft / 1520 mm, and Latvia and Lithuania 1520 mm. (And then Rail Baltica will add standard gauge to the mix in the baltics).
  - blueflow 4y ago
    5ft is 1524mm, you are describing the soviet wide gauge which is 1524 and 1520 mixed while using the same vehicles.
    - jsnell 4y ago
      No, they are different gauges with shared historical roots (5ft was the original Russian gauge, 1520 mm late Soviet redefinition). While the tolerance ranges for the two gauges overlap, they're not identical, nor is either a superset of the other. Trains can be built to be interoperable, but are not guaranteed to. And either way, these countries are in Europe by any definition and not on standard gauge.
rpadovani 4y ago
> Build out a similar high speed rail network That is actually an EU project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-European_Rail_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-European_Rail_network and they are working on it, but it will take decades to complete, I follow closely the Berlin-Palermo axis for personal interest, and plenty of sections are still just announcement in some press releases.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  I think the OPs point was that this should all have been done in the past so we could enjoy the fruits of this labour now. I do agree this was neglected way too long even after we knew global warming was a real thing.
  - zokier 4y ago
    According to 2018 report, EU has invested 24B EUR on HSR since 2000. The effectiveness of that investment can be debated, but HSR has definitely been recognized by EU for a while now.
rospaya 4y ago
> spending billions of EUR on moonshot projects What projects do you mean by this?
- reacharavindh 4y ago
  I meant more the generalist approach of allocating budget to fight climate change going to so many things that _does_ contribute to climate change, but not getting to the big picture. Subsiding a fraction of the cost of heat pumps, subsidies to business to "go green", etc admittedly help, but my point is they are tiny bandages to a large wound that is about to kill you. From this[1] it says EU has spent 20% of total budget or 220 Billion! to tackle climate change, and I just wish that was a good high speed railway or a better Energy grid that will facilitate adding more renewable sources to the grid without red tapes. [1] - https://ec.europa.eu/clima/eu-action/funding-climate-action/supporting-climate-action-through-eu-budget_en https://ec.europa.eu/clima/eu-action/funding-climate-action/...

vladvasiliu 4y ago

> Instead a singular train operator being able to run a train that seamlessly runs all the way through without changes Isn't that the case already? Or are the high-speed trains that go from Paris to Belgium / Netherlands / Italy / Spain just regular speed outside of France? I'm quite sure, at least the ones going North (UK/BE/NL) use the same tracks as the trains doing Paris-Lille (city in the North of France, close to Belgium). > Also, while at it, make the train operators compete on EUR/KM of operation so that the costs become competitive with intra-EU flights. I don't know if that's such a good thing. There are routes that are much more profitable than others. It's my understanding that, at least in theory, the profitable ones "subsidize" the others, such that people can actually use them. I don't think that having new companies showing up on the Paris-Lyon line, for example, will be a net positive for the country as a whole (that's by far the most profitable line in France). Or maybe force the new ones to serve all the other lines? I don't know what the best solution would be.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
> Isn't that the case already? Or are the high-speed trains that go from Paris to Belgium / Netherlands / Italy / Spain just regular speed outside of France? I'm quite sure, at least the ones going North (UK/BE/NL) use the same tracks as the trains doing Paris-Lille (city in the North of France, close to Belgium). Yes they are, but that's only the high speed lines. In the Netherlands we have just one, towards Belgium and it's construction was extremely costly and troublesome. It has not delivered on it's promises, one planned service has been within the first year. Towards the East we don't have any, and yes the ICEs from there run at slow speeds in the Netherlands.
reacharavindh 4y ago
Sure, there are some NightJet services by OBB that cover routes like Amsterdam - Vienna. But, that's far too few and mostly covers Vienna to X. But, my hope is that EU leaders would take pride in connecting all major cities to the EU fast rail "grid" so that you can travel from anywhere to anywhere without changing connections just like cheap flights these days. Amsterdam - Innsbruck (for Ski trips) Amsterdam - Florence Amsterdam - Berlin Amsterdam - Barcelona Amsterdam - Copenhagen are all examples that could be direct trains that run frequently such that taking a flight for these should feel like a chore. Of course, I am listing all from Amsterdam because that's where I live. My point is a Rail grid network criss crossing Europe would be super beneficial to the society to remove many cars from the road and many planes from the sky. Heck, these routes would bring added benefit of subsidising freight transport across these population centers. Yes, EUR/KM operation might come with its flaws. But, if that rail grid is treated as essential infrastructure, and business are allowed to run their train services not the grid competing with each other, it will be a revival of the golden era of trains, and public transport.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  I do think that would be a great idea. I absolutely hate taking the plane because of the whole airport circus, so would definitely support such an initiative. I think that governments might also buy into that, at least to a point. For example, in France, they passed a law looking to ban very short flights for which a rail alternative no longer than a few hours exists (four, I think).

mschuster91 4y ago

> Build out a similar high speed rail network that doesn't have country wise signalling/power/track changes such that one does not have to worry about "connecting" Dutch, French, German, Swiss and Italian trains on a trip across. All of Europe except Spain and Ukraine/Russia/Belarus runs on standard gauge anyway, and at least in Spain every new or renovated track is being laid with dual-position sleepers so that they can easily be retrofitted. Modern locomotives can use all power systems (25 kV, 15 kV AC, 3 kV DC) and the major security systems. For signalling, new tracks at least in the high speed sector are all prepared for ETCS. The only thing needing exchange at borders today is the locomotive driver, and even that is not necessary if the driver speaks the language of the country and knows the signalling system there (e.g. it's pretty common that freight train drivers run the trip from Germany to the Netherlands and back).

jsnell 4y ago
Finland uses 5 ft gauge, Estonia a mix of 5 ft / 1520 mm, and Latvia and Lithuania 1520 mm. (And then Rail Baltica will add standard gauge to the mix in the baltics).
- blueflow 4y ago
  5ft is 1524mm, you are describing the soviet wide gauge which is 1524 and 1520 mixed while using the same vehicles.
  - jsnell 4y ago
    No, they are different gauges with shared historical roots (5ft was the original Russian gauge, 1520 mm late Soviet redefinition). While the tolerance ranges for the two gauges overlap, they're not identical, nor is either a superset of the other. Trains can be built to be interoperable, but are not guaranteed to. And either way, these countries are in Europe by any definition and not on standard gauge.

rpadovani 4y ago

> Build out a similar high speed rail network That is actually an EU project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-European_Rail_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-European_Rail_network and they are working on it, but it will take decades to complete, I follow closely the Berlin-Palermo axis for personal interest, and plenty of sections are still just announcement in some press releases.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
I think the OPs point was that this should all have been done in the past so we could enjoy the fruits of this labour now. I do agree this was neglected way too long even after we knew global warming was a real thing.
- zokier 4y ago
  According to 2018 report, EU has invested 24B EUR on HSR since 2000. The effectiveness of that investment can be debated, but HSR has definitely been recognized by EU for a while now.

rospaya 4y ago

> spending billions of EUR on moonshot projects What projects do you mean by this?

reacharavindh 4y ago
I meant more the generalist approach of allocating budget to fight climate change going to so many things that _does_ contribute to climate change, but not getting to the big picture. Subsiding a fraction of the cost of heat pumps, subsidies to business to "go green", etc admittedly help, but my point is they are tiny bandages to a large wound that is about to kill you. From this[1] it says EU has spent 20% of total budget or 220 Billion! to tackle climate change, and I just wish that was a good high speed railway or a better Energy grid that will facilitate adding more renewable sources to the grid without red tapes. [1] - https://ec.europa.eu/clima/eu-action/funding-climate-action/supporting-climate-action-through-eu-budget_en https://ec.europa.eu/clima/eu-action/funding-climate-action/...