5 ms·

I wouldn't lose a second to C# or any MS platform unless required for employment reasons. https://github.com/OmniSharp/omnisharp-vscode/issues/5276 https://git

by evasb 4y ago

I wouldn't lose a second to C# or any MS platform unless required for employment reasons. https://github.com/OmniSharp/omnisharp-vscode/issues/5276 https://github.com/OmniSharp/omnisharp-vscode/issues/5276

oneepic 4y ago
Could you explain your point a bit more? They are EEE'ing a VSCode extension, so you're going to avoid that and the language, and the entire ecosystem?
- agent281 4y ago
  They are replacing an open source extension with a closed source extension. Makes people nervous given the embrace, extend, extinguish paradigm that they previously employed.
- ghuntley 4y ago
  See https://www.isdotnetopen.com/ https://www.isdotnetopen.com/
- d3nj4l 4y ago
  > They are EEE'ing a VSCode extension, so you're going to avoid that and the language, and the entire ecosystem? Sounds like a pretty good reason to me?
nathanaldensr 4y ago
Sorry, but OmniSharp sucks, and this is not a controversial opinion even among Microsoft employees. I am all for the .NET experience in VS Code improving greatly from where it is with OmniSharp. This will actually help increase adoption of .NET, which, I remind you, is open source.
- Hawxy 4y ago
  > Sorry, but OmniSharp sucks I agree. This appears more like an attempt to get the most value (integration of proprietary Visual Studio features that devs want) into the VSCode extension as quickly as possible. Said proprietary libraries are likely not able to be easily open sourced for a variety of possible reasons, so a closed source LSP bridge was the compromise the teams came to.
  - WorldMaker 4y ago
    The directly related fight here is Microsoft's pylance on the Python side. pyright still exists and many of the components in pylance are still open source, but pylance itself is closed source and bundles closed source tools. (That is pylance is not just a pyright fork, but closed source LSP bridge for pyright + proprietary parts.) It's not without controversy on the Python side as well. At some point it simply becomes questions of stewardship and transparency: How good are they at pointing out the open source parts wrapped inside the closed source LSP bridge? What cadence do they upstream fixes to the open source parts? So far Microsoft's stewardship on the Python side seems strong: pylance has a lot of transparent documentation of all the open source bits. There seems to be a steady upstream flow to pyright for users that prefer to stay entirely with an open source LSP. Microsoft isn't treating it like a competition to "win" and encourages users to make their own choice among the options. Of course, Microsoft doesn't "own" Python in the same way it "owns" .NET so I can definitely understand why there's increased fear that Microsoft won't be as good of a steward with respect to this "competition" with OmniSharp simply because of .NET's past. But in .NET's past this controversy would be happening after Microsoft did all the work in building the closed source LSP replacement. The fact that we're having this discussion now in only an "architectural discussion" state says a lot already about how Microsoft's stewardship and transparency have changed today.
- exyi 4y ago
  Yes, but it works and it's open source. All the other languages have open source tooling (LSP or similar), why can't we have one for C#?
jimbob45 4y ago
Why would you ever waste time using VSCode for C# when VS and JetBrains Rider exist?
- bayesian_horse 4y ago
  Can they develop remotely on a linux server? Last I checked VSC is the only one that can.
  - dsissitka 4y ago
    They have a thin client in beta: https://www.jetbrains.com/remote-development/gateway/ https://www.jetbrains.com/remote-development/gateway/
- d3nj4l 4y ago
  Maybe it's good to have an open ecosystem for using the language that doesn't rely on paying for an IDE? I personally soured on Kotlin for this same reason!
  - jimbob45 4y ago
    VS is free though.
    - bluefirebrand 4y ago
      Yeah but it's terrible? It's slow, it's bloated, it's loaded with way too many configuration options and yet still doesn't have a lot of config I like from other editors. It has plenty of plugins and still manages to be missing extensions that I find important. Development with Visual Studio just doesn't feel very good compared to other environments these days.
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        You mean lack of GUI tooling, no proper debugger, no parallel code debugging, no GPGPU debugging, no hotcode reload, no REPL, no mixed language debugging, no lifecycle management,... yeah those environments rock.

by evasb 4y ago

oneepic 4y ago

Could you explain your point a bit more? They are EEE'ing a VSCode extension, so you're going to avoid that and the language, and the entire ecosystem?

agent281 4y ago
They are replacing an open source extension with a closed source extension. Makes people nervous given the embrace, extend, extinguish paradigm that they previously employed.
ghuntley 4y ago
See https://www.isdotnetopen.com/ https://www.isdotnetopen.com/
d3nj4l 4y ago
> They are EEE'ing a VSCode extension, so you're going to avoid that and the language, and the entire ecosystem? Sounds like a pretty good reason to me?

nathanaldensr 4y ago

Sorry, but OmniSharp sucks, and this is not a controversial opinion even among Microsoft employees. I am all for the .NET experience in VS Code improving greatly from where it is with OmniSharp. This will actually help increase adoption of .NET, which, I remind you, is open source.

Hawxy 4y ago
> Sorry, but OmniSharp sucks I agree. This appears more like an attempt to get the most value (integration of proprietary Visual Studio features that devs want) into the VSCode extension as quickly as possible. Said proprietary libraries are likely not able to be easily open sourced for a variety of possible reasons, so a closed source LSP bridge was the compromise the teams came to.
- WorldMaker 4y ago
  The directly related fight here is Microsoft's pylance on the Python side. pyright still exists and many of the components in pylance are still open source, but pylance itself is closed source and bundles closed source tools. (That is pylance is not just a pyright fork, but closed source LSP bridge for pyright + proprietary parts.) It's not without controversy on the Python side as well. At some point it simply becomes questions of stewardship and transparency: How good are they at pointing out the open source parts wrapped inside the closed source LSP bridge? What cadence do they upstream fixes to the open source parts? So far Microsoft's stewardship on the Python side seems strong: pylance has a lot of transparent documentation of all the open source bits. There seems to be a steady upstream flow to pyright for users that prefer to stay entirely with an open source LSP. Microsoft isn't treating it like a competition to "win" and encourages users to make their own choice among the options. Of course, Microsoft doesn't "own" Python in the same way it "owns" .NET so I can definitely understand why there's increased fear that Microsoft won't be as good of a steward with respect to this "competition" with OmniSharp simply because of .NET's past. But in .NET's past this controversy would be happening after Microsoft did all the work in building the closed source LSP replacement. The fact that we're having this discussion now in only an "architectural discussion" state says a lot already about how Microsoft's stewardship and transparency have changed today.
exyi 4y ago
Yes, but it works and it's open source. All the other languages have open source tooling (LSP or similar), why can't we have one for C#?

jimbob45 4y ago

Why would you ever waste time using VSCode for C# when VS and JetBrains Rider exist?

bayesian_horse 4y ago
Can they develop remotely on a linux server? Last I checked VSC is the only one that can.
- dsissitka 4y ago
  They have a thin client in beta: https://www.jetbrains.com/remote-development/gateway/ https://www.jetbrains.com/remote-development/gateway/
d3nj4l 4y ago
Maybe it's good to have an open ecosystem for using the language that doesn't rely on paying for an IDE? I personally soured on Kotlin for this same reason!
- jimbob45 4y ago
  VS is free though.
  - bluefirebrand 4y ago
    Yeah but it's terrible? It's slow, it's bloated, it's loaded with way too many configuration options and yet still doesn't have a lot of config I like from other editors. It has plenty of plugins and still manages to be missing extensions that I find important. Development with Visual Studio just doesn't feel very good compared to other environments these days.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      You mean lack of GUI tooling, no proper debugger, no parallel code debugging, no GPGPU debugging, no hotcode reload, no REPL, no mixed language debugging, no lifecycle management,... yeah those environments rock.