5 ms·

Rental real estate is bad? Rental properties increase the supply of homes to people who don't have the credit or income to own. Homeowners freak out at someon

by vba616 4y ago

Rental real estate is bad? Rental properties increase the supply of homes to people who don't have the credit or income to own. Homeowners freak out at someone buying a property to rent out because they don't want poor people around. Same as with homeless shelters, addiction treatment centers, public housing... Anybody who lives in a neighborhood of mostly homeowners I would expect has seen it firsthand. "Muh property values!" The lower the property values, the more paranoid people get.

feet 4y ago
Yes, landlords don't provide value. Rents capture most increases in wages while giving nothing of actual value back to the community. There was even a board member of a real estate investment firm discussing that it's a great time to press rents because they're at 97% capacity and people have nowhere else to go. That's disgusting behavior and not beneficial, it actively harms people. Editing to add citation: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2022-evictions-monarch-investment-rental-properties/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2022-evictions-monarch-in...
- jeffbee 4y ago
  If the big landlords were not in there it would just be more smaller landlords doing the same thing. The only thing to be done if you dislike the power of landlords is to flood the market with supply, which should be policy in every jurisdiction in America, but isn't because the owners/landlords are in control of the policies.
- vba616 4y ago
  Converting more properties to rentals is bad for rents? Increasing the supply...of rental housing...makes the rental market worse for renters? It doesn't provide value to NIMBYs who don't want those people in their neighborhoods. I know whereof I speak because I live in a neighborhood, where most properties are not rented out, but they resemble apartments, and there was an ongoing soap opera about a vacant lot which was developed to be a rental property. And there probably were unscrupulous things that went on, in terms of permits and zoning and stuff. There were allegations about a retaining wall not being properly constructed to prevent erosion. But people are basically against it because it "looks different" and will bring lower class people in. Personally, I don't care about property values because I'm not in the business of flipping houses, whereas I would rather not pay a lot of property taxes. Do you rent or own your home?
  - feet 4y ago
    You must have missed my point. The supply is restricted due to lobbying by home owners and landlord associations, this leaves people with no choice. If you watch the video on the article I cited you can see how the investment firms operate in their own words. This restriction of supply takes housing off the market which raises prices on what's left due to actual humans who want to own a home have to pay more. If the amount of actual people who want to own homes remains static and suddenly we have investors buying up a ton of homes reducing the supply, prices on the remaining homes shoots up. This leaves people with little to no choice, if they were previously able to afford a home then they no longer can and are forced to rent. Is this good for renters? It's only good for the profits of investment firms.
    - vba616 4y ago
      > The supply is restricted due to lobbying by home owners and landlord associations The supply of rentals is restricted due to lobbying by home owners. Not sure if you are agreeing. Have you ever rented an apartment under your own name or had a mortgage?
xputer 4y ago
Yes, land lords are quite literally rent-seeking. They don't provide any value to society and just leech off of people who are poorer than themselves. All rental housing property should be owned by non-profit organizations.
- vba616 4y ago
  Have you experienced both being a renter and a homeowner? If you haven't, owning a home will open your eyes. Should, anyway.
  - feet 4y ago
    The points being made in this thread seem to be flying over your head as your beat the drum of personal anecdote. That is not productive in a conversation about fixing a flawed system
dzhiurgis 4y ago
Is ok as long as landlords are building new property and not competing with existing stock. Also leverage - if they are leveraged to the brim - they should go bust but that never happens.
- vba616 4y ago
  >Is ok as long as landlords are building new property and not competing with existing stock Think about the reasons why you rent an apartment. One is that you can't get a mortgage. Another is that you can't assume you will stay in the same place for a long time. Buying and selling real estate is extremely expensive. Another is that you can't afford sudden large maintenance expenses like a new roof or whatever. These are the biggest three that come to my mind. If these reasons for renting apply, then anyone who converts a property to a rental is increasing the supply available to you. Even if it's not newly constructed.
  - dzhiurgis 4y ago
    And you can't get mortgage because... landlords with enormous leverage bid against each other, jack up rental costs and you are left with even less for mortgage. I do like mobility tho - I've lived in 4 countries, 10+ properties, all rental. Unsure where is the right balance is tho. Banks in NZ won't let you develop property unless you already own land, so it's out or reach for first timers. IMO it's fair if we redirect investor capital into new developments.

by vba616 4y ago

feet 4y ago

Yes, landlords don't provide value. Rents capture most increases in wages while giving nothing of actual value back to the community. There was even a board member of a real estate investment firm discussing that it's a great time to press rents because they're at 97% capacity and people have nowhere else to go. That's disgusting behavior and not beneficial, it actively harms people. Editing to add citation: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2022-evictions-monarch-investment-rental-properties/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2022-evictions-monarch-in...

jeffbee 4y ago
If the big landlords were not in there it would just be more smaller landlords doing the same thing. The only thing to be done if you dislike the power of landlords is to flood the market with supply, which should be policy in every jurisdiction in America, but isn't because the owners/landlords are in control of the policies.
vba616 4y ago
Converting more properties to rentals is bad for rents? Increasing the supply...of rental housing...makes the rental market worse for renters? It doesn't provide value to NIMBYs who don't want those people in their neighborhoods. I know whereof I speak because I live in a neighborhood, where most properties are not rented out, but they resemble apartments, and there was an ongoing soap opera about a vacant lot which was developed to be a rental property. And there probably were unscrupulous things that went on, in terms of permits and zoning and stuff. There were allegations about a retaining wall not being properly constructed to prevent erosion. But people are basically against it because it "looks different" and will bring lower class people in. Personally, I don't care about property values because I'm not in the business of flipping houses, whereas I would rather not pay a lot of property taxes. Do you rent or own your home?
- feet 4y ago
  You must have missed my point. The supply is restricted due to lobbying by home owners and landlord associations, this leaves people with no choice. If you watch the video on the article I cited you can see how the investment firms operate in their own words. This restriction of supply takes housing off the market which raises prices on what's left due to actual humans who want to own a home have to pay more. If the amount of actual people who want to own homes remains static and suddenly we have investors buying up a ton of homes reducing the supply, prices on the remaining homes shoots up. This leaves people with little to no choice, if they were previously able to afford a home then they no longer can and are forced to rent. Is this good for renters? It's only good for the profits of investment firms.
  - vba616 4y ago
    > The supply is restricted due to lobbying by home owners and landlord associations The supply of rentals is restricted due to lobbying by home owners. Not sure if you are agreeing. Have you ever rented an apartment under your own name or had a mortgage?

xputer 4y ago

Yes, land lords are quite literally rent-seeking. They don't provide any value to society and just leech off of people who are poorer than themselves. All rental housing property should be owned by non-profit organizations.

vba616 4y ago
Have you experienced both being a renter and a homeowner? If you haven't, owning a home will open your eyes. Should, anyway.
- feet 4y ago
  The points being made in this thread seem to be flying over your head as your beat the drum of personal anecdote. That is not productive in a conversation about fixing a flawed system

dzhiurgis 4y ago

Is ok as long as landlords are building new property and not competing with existing stock. Also leverage - if they are leveraged to the brim - they should go bust but that never happens.

vba616 4y ago
>Is ok as long as landlords are building new property and not competing with existing stock Think about the reasons why you rent an apartment. One is that you can't get a mortgage. Another is that you can't assume you will stay in the same place for a long time. Buying and selling real estate is extremely expensive. Another is that you can't afford sudden large maintenance expenses like a new roof or whatever. These are the biggest three that come to my mind. If these reasons for renting apply, then anyone who converts a property to a rental is increasing the supply available to you. Even if it's not newly constructed.
- dzhiurgis 4y ago
  And you can't get mortgage because... landlords with enormous leverage bid against each other, jack up rental costs and you are left with even less for mortgage. I do like mobility tho - I've lived in 4 countries, 10+ properties, all rental. Unsure where is the right balance is tho. Banks in NZ won't let you develop property unless you already own land, so it's out or reach for first timers. IMO it's fair if we redirect investor capital into new developments.