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That's not how competent research is done. You don't go into a hole for 5 years and then come back into the world with a fully-formed paper. While you're doing

That's not how competent research is done. You don't go into a hole for 5 years and then come back into the world with a fully-formed paper. While you're doing that research, the world moves on, and if your citations are from 5 years ago, any publication will ask the extremely appropriate question "How does this matter w.r.t. the research published since you started this work?", and send the paper back for rewrite. Or, it may ask the even more appropriate question "Why does your research matter given the results of papers x,y,z which are directly related to your research question?" Any competent researcher should preempt in their literature review, and if they can't then it's not research but instead PR. And this doesn't even touch upon the fact that research that's going to take 5 years is going to be well-funded, and you'll have to write interim reports over that period. When you get 5 years of funding, you don't get that all at once. During that time, you'll have to answer for advances in the field and justify why the research is still worth doing.

Retric 4y ago
Experiments that take a long time aren’t always expensive, sometimes you just need time. What actually happens to a sample held at X condition for some period of time? As to other field moving on, it can be a reason to reject the paper in it’s entirety but has zero impact on the results which is the only thing that actually matters. Papers aren’t textbooks, the goal is to communicate what was done and what happened not inform the reader of some wider context. In the end if I am reading 30 papers on some topic I really want them to be as short and clear as possible. And for topics I keep up with I sure don’t need this fluff.
- ModernMech 4y ago
  > Papers aren’t textbooks, the goal is to communicate what was done and what happened not inform the reader of some wider context. And a literature review is part of what was done, always. If what you said were true, there would be no point in a literature review at all. Instead, every paper includes one because researchers understand it's an intrinsic part of research. That's what makes it research instead of just search: research is a systematic process that involves, in every definition of the process I've ever come across, a literature review. I challenge you to find an example of peer reviewed research that doesn't contain one.
  - Retric 4y ago
    Here’s a translation of a rather fun counterexample. https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/232514/Einstein%20E=mc2%20(pp172-174).pdf https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/232514/Einstein%20E=mc2%20(pp... But, I don’t disagree that someone should keep up with the literature. Including it as part of a paper is what I disagree with.
    - ModernMech 4y ago
      It’s unlikely this paper was peer reviewed. The peer review process was much different in Einstein’s time. It wouldn’t pass for research today. I kind of thought we were talking about how research is conducted in modern times, not how they did it over 100 years ago.
      - Retric 4y ago
        If you want a more recent example. How about 1966 with the counter example of Euler’s Conjecture on Sums of Like Powers. A direct search on the CDC 6600 yielded 27^5 + 84^5 + 110^5 + 133^5 = 144^5 as the smallest instance in which four fifth powers sum to a fifth power. This is a counterexample to a conjecture by Euler [1] that at least n nth powers are required to sum to an nth power, 1 > 2. And that’s the paper. They could have gone into great detail about the program used etc, but it clearly communicates what was done and the results so why bother.
        ModernMech 4y ago
        “I consulted a magic box and arrived at the answer” is precisely the kind of paper that is an example of search, and not research. I mean, they plainly stated that’s what they’ve done. How would you go about redoing exactly what Lander and Parkin did? You can’t because they don’t really say. Isn’t this whole thread about a lack of reproducible studies resulting in fraud? But anyway, I like what you’re doing here because you’re beginning to document why the modern peer review system was developed in the first place in the 70s. Sounds like a good topic for a research paper.

Retric 4y ago

Experiments that take a long time aren’t always expensive, sometimes you just need time. What actually happens to a sample held at X condition for some period of time? As to other field moving on, it can be a reason to reject the paper in it’s entirety but has zero impact on the results which is the only thing that actually matters. Papers aren’t textbooks, the goal is to communicate what was done and what happened not inform the reader of some wider context. In the end if I am reading 30 papers on some topic I really want them to be as short and clear as possible. And for topics I keep up with I sure don’t need this fluff.

ModernMech 4y ago
> Papers aren’t textbooks, the goal is to communicate what was done and what happened not inform the reader of some wider context. And a literature review is part of what was done, always. If what you said were true, there would be no point in a literature review at all. Instead, every paper includes one because researchers understand it's an intrinsic part of research. That's what makes it research instead of just search: research is a systematic process that involves, in every definition of the process I've ever come across, a literature review. I challenge you to find an example of peer reviewed research that doesn't contain one.
- Retric 4y ago
  Here’s a translation of a rather fun counterexample. https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/232514/Einstein%20E=mc2%20(pp172-174).pdf https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/232514/Einstein%20E=mc2%20(pp... But, I don’t disagree that someone should keep up with the literature. Including it as part of a paper is what I disagree with.
  - ModernMech 4y ago
    It’s unlikely this paper was peer reviewed. The peer review process was much different in Einstein’s time. It wouldn’t pass for research today. I kind of thought we were talking about how research is conducted in modern times, not how they did it over 100 years ago.
    - Retric 4y ago
      If you want a more recent example. How about 1966 with the counter example of Euler’s Conjecture on Sums of Like Powers. A direct search on the CDC 6600 yielded 27^5 + 84^5 + 110^5 + 133^5 = 144^5 as the smallest instance in which four fifth powers sum to a fifth power. This is a counterexample to a conjecture by Euler [1] that at least n nth powers are required to sum to an nth power, 1 > 2. And that’s the paper. They could have gone into great detail about the program used etc, but it clearly communicates what was done and the results so why bother.
      - ModernMech 4y ago
        “I consulted a magic box and arrived at the answer” is precisely the kind of paper that is an example of search, and not research. I mean, they plainly stated that’s what they’ve done. How would you go about redoing exactly what Lander and Parkin did? You can’t because they don’t really say. Isn’t this whole thread about a lack of reproducible studies resulting in fraud? But anyway, I like what you’re doing here because you’re beginning to document why the modern peer review system was developed in the first place in the 70s. Sounds like a good topic for a research paper.