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Your admiration (or lack there of) for Musk is mostly manufactured by the media that wants you to engage with the article and care about it. Just apply some cr

Your admiration (or lack there of) for Musk is mostly manufactured by the media that wants you to engage with the article and care about it. Just apply some critical thinking to this: You have no idea if Sergei Brin is a good person or not in personal relationships You have no idea if Anne Wojcicki is a good person or not in personal relationships You have no idea what the dynamic of the relationship was. You have no idea how these people lead their personal lives. Anyone could be lying. So most importantly, you should not care. If you want examples of personal character traits that are good or bad from which you can make decisions on in terms of who to listen to or not, you should take everything in isolation. People seem to think that just because someone does something good, he/she must also do the same level of good in EVERY aspect of their life. People don't work this way. You can have brilliant assholes, or nicest/kindest people that are completely clueless.

maxbond 4y ago
People are allowed to have opinions. Accusing them of being merely dupes of the media is out of line, and a tactic which seeks to reject their ability to hold an opinion rather than engage with their opinion. If you don't have an argument to express in good faith, simply move on with your day rather than slinging mud.
- 8jef 4y ago
  > People are allowed to have opinions. Yes, they are. And making one's opinion very public makes possible for others to express some opinion of their own about one's opinion. While aiming for a homerun, one has to accept getting hit where it hurts. That's what weak spots are for. Besides, as mentioned, appearances rarely conform to reality. In a deluge of opinions, reality drowns. Some people do value facts over fluff.
  - maxbond 4y ago
    Accusing strangers on the internet of being dupes for expressing their opinion seeks to chill their speech instead of criticizing their ideas. If one believes their criticism is worthy, they shouldn't feel compelled to wrap it in bad faith tactics in order to express it publicly. If they feel that it can't stand on it's own without such tactics, it isn't worth expressing. This tactic is counter to what to suggest. It seeks to attack the other person's qualifications to hold an opinion rather than allow your arguments and theirs to be subjected to equal scrutiny.
- ActorNightly 4y ago
  Not sure how what I said means "People can't have an opinion". My overall point is that you should base your opinions on reality.
  - Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
    Reality = Brin might have faults but he's good at hiding them. He also founded a company that billions of people use every day , and not only that...they use all the various different flavors of Google. Also reality = Musk has many faults and he's very bad at hiding them. But that is essentially irrelevant for people who don't have to deal with him, also there isn't a scarcity of hot girls so the animosity towards playboys like him, Leonardo Di Caprio and Dan Bilzerian is out of place. Tough love for Musk fans = approximately 1 million people use the products/services sold by Musk companies...out of a potential audience of about 100/150 millions (those who can afford a luxury sedan). To summarize = I'd shake Brin's hand and pat him on the shoulder for a job well done, won't try to become his friend or anything. Would not do the same for Musk because there is nothing to congratulate him (yet).
    - ActorNightly 4y ago
      If you don't see his successes with Space X or Tesla as something worthy of congratulation, then I dunno what to tell you, we live in different realities then.
      - Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
        This is not politics or entertainment. The only thing that matters is a company revenue as % of GDP and number of people using your products/services. Tesla and SpaceX are like great poker bluffs. People talk about them, nobody really uses them. Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Salesforce, Facebook...are like Mohammed Ali KO punches or Michael Jordan's last jump against Utah. Already there for the world to see, commercialized globally and enjoyed by billions. Add them up and you end up with something like 2 trillions in revenue and some 80% reach globally. There's a reason why nobody makes highlights of poker bluffs. A poker bluff can always become something real, but of course you only shake a person hand after it became real, not before.
fzeroracer 4y ago
I mean, I took a quick look at your post history and it seems you engage in the exact opposite manner when an article or situation seems to be positive of Elon Musk or something that Tesla does, so it doesn't seem that you're adhering to your own argument. Regardless, the traits that Musk exhibits (sleeping with subordinates, lack of self-control, impulsive decisions) are generally speaking not good traits for leaders to have, and it's starting to feel like it's finally catching up to him.
- ActorNightly 4y ago
  The positive aspects of Musk or Tesla that are highlighted on HN are solely in regards to technology, which is much easier to parse and pick apart (and a worthwhile effort to do so compared to some personal life details). Whether or not we agree on morality of personal life choices, I think we can all agree that SpaceX/Tesla has at a minimum contributed quite a substantial amount of useful technology to humanity, even if the final products are not the best. As for leadership traits, I think its pretty silly to attempt to fit every leader into a mold that is determined to be the most socially acceptable. Its well known that people on the spectrum can have poor social skills, yet be absolutely brilliant in other areas.

maxbond 4y ago

People are allowed to have opinions. Accusing them of being merely dupes of the media is out of line, and a tactic which seeks to reject their ability to hold an opinion rather than engage with their opinion. If you don't have an argument to express in good faith, simply move on with your day rather than slinging mud.

8jef 4y ago
> People are allowed to have opinions. Yes, they are. And making one's opinion very public makes possible for others to express some opinion of their own about one's opinion. While aiming for a homerun, one has to accept getting hit where it hurts. That's what weak spots are for. Besides, as mentioned, appearances rarely conform to reality. In a deluge of opinions, reality drowns. Some people do value facts over fluff.
- maxbond 4y ago
  Accusing strangers on the internet of being dupes for expressing their opinion seeks to chill their speech instead of criticizing their ideas. If one believes their criticism is worthy, they shouldn't feel compelled to wrap it in bad faith tactics in order to express it publicly. If they feel that it can't stand on it's own without such tactics, it isn't worth expressing. This tactic is counter to what to suggest. It seeks to attack the other person's qualifications to hold an opinion rather than allow your arguments and theirs to be subjected to equal scrutiny.
ActorNightly 4y ago
Not sure how what I said means "People can't have an opinion". My overall point is that you should base your opinions on reality.
- Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
  Reality = Brin might have faults but he's good at hiding them. He also founded a company that billions of people use every day , and not only that...they use all the various different flavors of Google. Also reality = Musk has many faults and he's very bad at hiding them. But that is essentially irrelevant for people who don't have to deal with him, also there isn't a scarcity of hot girls so the animosity towards playboys like him, Leonardo Di Caprio and Dan Bilzerian is out of place. Tough love for Musk fans = approximately 1 million people use the products/services sold by Musk companies...out of a potential audience of about 100/150 millions (those who can afford a luxury sedan). To summarize = I'd shake Brin's hand and pat him on the shoulder for a job well done, won't try to become his friend or anything. Would not do the same for Musk because there is nothing to congratulate him (yet).
  - ActorNightly 4y ago
    If you don't see his successes with Space X or Tesla as something worthy of congratulation, then I dunno what to tell you, we live in different realities then.
    - Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
      This is not politics or entertainment. The only thing that matters is a company revenue as % of GDP and number of people using your products/services. Tesla and SpaceX are like great poker bluffs. People talk about them, nobody really uses them. Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Salesforce, Facebook...are like Mohammed Ali KO punches or Michael Jordan's last jump against Utah. Already there for the world to see, commercialized globally and enjoyed by billions. Add them up and you end up with something like 2 trillions in revenue and some 80% reach globally. There's a reason why nobody makes highlights of poker bluffs. A poker bluff can always become something real, but of course you only shake a person hand after it became real, not before.

fzeroracer 4y ago

I mean, I took a quick look at your post history and it seems you engage in the exact opposite manner when an article or situation seems to be positive of Elon Musk or something that Tesla does, so it doesn't seem that you're adhering to your own argument. Regardless, the traits that Musk exhibits (sleeping with subordinates, lack of self-control, impulsive decisions) are generally speaking not good traits for leaders to have, and it's starting to feel like it's finally catching up to him.

ActorNightly 4y ago
The positive aspects of Musk or Tesla that are highlighted on HN are solely in regards to technology, which is much easier to parse and pick apart (and a worthwhile effort to do so compared to some personal life details). Whether or not we agree on morality of personal life choices, I think we can all agree that SpaceX/Tesla has at a minimum contributed quite a substantial amount of useful technology to humanity, even if the final products are not the best. As for leadership traits, I think its pretty silly to attempt to fit every leader into a mold that is determined to be the most socially acceptable. Its well known that people on the spectrum can have poor social skills, yet be absolutely brilliant in other areas.