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I wasn't directly referring to wealth when I spoke about greed. People can be greedy for power over others. If you think the problem is innate to humans, we ca

by feet 4y ago

I wasn't directly referring to wealth when I spoke about greed. People can be greedy for power over others. If you think the problem is innate to humans, we can't change it without changing humans themselves. At this point that is unrealistic, and we currently have a system that literally rewards greed. It rewards greed not only with money but with power. Political and corporate power systems reward greed, to make any progress that must be changed. Human progress is incremental, the next best step we can take is to implement mitigations to the innate issues present. You talk bad about "isms" but present no tangible solution. Quite frankly, that is not helpful. Greed for power has already been identified quite some time ago and systems have been thought up as mitigations to this problem. We need a tangible solution that we can put into place now because we have people suffering at the hands of others currently. I suggest you read about socialism and how the system is set up to mitigate these problems, as considering your statement about greed being able to taint the system, I don't think you understand how it works. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_State_and_Revolution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_State_and_Revolution

catchnear4321 4y ago
I need to bookmark your response, it really is the gold standard of “socialism is the answer” responses. “You have no solution so that’s not helpful.” I’m not offering you a target so I should be quiet. I’m not providing an alternative so the problem needs no more thought. No value from discussion not about socialism. Check. “Duh to anything where I agree with you, you simply misunderstood my words and Lenin’s words, and nothing you said is original.” Not looking for common ground. General negation. Check. “Progress is incremental,” and “we need solutions.” Rolls with shutting down discussion, socialism is the only viable and we have no time to look for alternatives, let’s just do. Check. “I suggest you read my book. You don’t understand it.” Check and check. From the above, I have to assume you are only interested in socialism, not the broader problems with the formation and decay of conscious society at a global scale. Let me know if that changes. Do you really not understand why socialism isn’t working? Why people might fear it could just as easily be corrupted as anything else? Your reply is practically performance art on the subject.
- feet 4y ago
  Socialism doesn't work because the CIA loves to stick their nose into other countries at the behest of capital owners, this has also been publicly known for decades. As I said the problem has been identified long ago, restating the issue doesn't help anything. We need a solution. How do you even define consciousness of society?what does that even mean? How do you know it even changed?
  - catchnear4321 4y ago
    It also doesn’t work because of the attitudes of those professing it’s values when it comes to the non-believers. As I said I disagree with the dogma. The problem is not identified. That’s my disagreement. Just a symptom. And treatment of symptoms can be as problematic as the symptoms. Until the cause is addressed it isn’t going away. It also horrifies me that you suggest we move on from discussion because dead men have already discussed. That sounds awful conservative, tbph. Perhaps I should reread some things. “How do you even define consciousness of society?” Excellent question! But why do you phrase it in such a way as to suggest looking into the unknown and asking questions is a waste of time? Again, that sounds oddly the opposite of… progress.
    - feet 4y ago
      The "nonbelievers" tend to be either the greedy ones themselves or people who have been tricked by the greedy ones, you can see the effect of the propaganda spread by corporate news such as CNN, MSNBC, and Fox. So you claimed that innate desire for power is the root of the problem, I agreed and clarified, and now you're saying it isn't identified? I can't tell if you're serious or disingenuous. Your statements seem completely disingenuous. I suggest we move on because we finished with the identification, why would we linger on that after its finished. That's a bullshit move to muddy the waters and prevent progress. That is what reactionary conservatives do I phrased it in that way because I suspected you had no idea what that actually meant and are just stringing words together for dramatic effect. To have a discussion on a topic we need to have agreed upon definitions, but with the way you waffle back and forth in ambiguity I find it hard to believe you actually want to try.

by feet 4y ago

catchnear4321 4y ago

I need to bookmark your response, it really is the gold standard of “socialism is the answer” responses. “You have no solution so that’s not helpful.” I’m not offering you a target so I should be quiet. I’m not providing an alternative so the problem needs no more thought. No value from discussion not about socialism. Check. “Duh to anything where I agree with you, you simply misunderstood my words and Lenin’s words, and nothing you said is original.” Not looking for common ground. General negation. Check. “Progress is incremental,” and “we need solutions.” Rolls with shutting down discussion, socialism is the only viable and we have no time to look for alternatives, let’s just do. Check. “I suggest you read my book. You don’t understand it.” Check and check. From the above, I have to assume you are only interested in socialism, not the broader problems with the formation and decay of conscious society at a global scale. Let me know if that changes. Do you really not understand why socialism isn’t working? Why people might fear it could just as easily be corrupted as anything else? Your reply is practically performance art on the subject.

feet 4y ago
Socialism doesn't work because the CIA loves to stick their nose into other countries at the behest of capital owners, this has also been publicly known for decades. As I said the problem has been identified long ago, restating the issue doesn't help anything. We need a solution. How do you even define consciousness of society?what does that even mean? How do you know it even changed?
- catchnear4321 4y ago
  It also doesn’t work because of the attitudes of those professing it’s values when it comes to the non-believers. As I said I disagree with the dogma. The problem is not identified. That’s my disagreement. Just a symptom. And treatment of symptoms can be as problematic as the symptoms. Until the cause is addressed it isn’t going away. It also horrifies me that you suggest we move on from discussion because dead men have already discussed. That sounds awful conservative, tbph. Perhaps I should reread some things. “How do you even define consciousness of society?” Excellent question! But why do you phrase it in such a way as to suggest looking into the unknown and asking questions is a waste of time? Again, that sounds oddly the opposite of… progress.
  - feet 4y ago
    The "nonbelievers" tend to be either the greedy ones themselves or people who have been tricked by the greedy ones, you can see the effect of the propaganda spread by corporate news such as CNN, MSNBC, and Fox. So you claimed that innate desire for power is the root of the problem, I agreed and clarified, and now you're saying it isn't identified? I can't tell if you're serious or disingenuous. Your statements seem completely disingenuous. I suggest we move on because we finished with the identification, why would we linger on that after its finished. That's a bullshit move to muddy the waters and prevent progress. That is what reactionary conservatives do I phrased it in that way because I suspected you had no idea what that actually meant and are just stringing words together for dramatic effect. To have a discussion on a topic we need to have agreed upon definitions, but with the way you waffle back and forth in ambiguity I find it hard to believe you actually want to try.