5 ms·

I think we do agree, but we need a solution to the problem. The idea behind socialism is the acceptance that there are some people who are greedy and will go af

by feet 4y ago

I think we do agree, but we need a solution to the problem. The idea behind socialism is the acceptance that there are some people who are greedy and will go after power, but that we don't reward that greed. The capitalistic system that we have currently set up specifically does reward greed, changing the system would mitigate that. We can't rely on individuals to just not be greedy assholes which is why we should set up a system that prevents those type of people from controlling things. Socialism is true democracy in that the majority generally has the power instead of the few greedy people. We currently incentivize greed, changing this would mitigate many of the issues.

catchnear4321 4y ago
Set up a system to treat a symptom. Surely the actual problem would be capable of tainting that system as well, wouldn’t it? The slope is slippery and the cost is great. No, I’m not offering a solution. To the problem of capitalism, or to any other. But it is hard to get excited about more symptom solving. Greed comes close, but it is broader. A tyrant doesn’t have to be wealthy. Which is why another “ism” just doesn’t do it for me. Power doesn’t have to be draped in gold. (It just tends to be.)
- feet 4y ago
  I wasn't directly referring to wealth when I spoke about greed. People can be greedy for power over others. If you think the problem is innate to humans, we can't change it without changing humans themselves. At this point that is unrealistic, and we currently have a system that literally rewards greed. It rewards greed not only with money but with power. Political and corporate power systems reward greed, to make any progress that must be changed. Human progress is incremental, the next best step we can take is to implement mitigations to the innate issues present. You talk bad about "isms" but present no tangible solution. Quite frankly, that is not helpful. Greed for power has already been identified quite some time ago and systems have been thought up as mitigations to this problem. We need a tangible solution that we can put into place now because we have people suffering at the hands of others currently. I suggest you read about socialism and how the system is set up to mitigate these problems, as considering your statement about greed being able to taint the system, I don't think you understand how it works. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_State_and_Revolution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_State_and_Revolution
  - catchnear4321 4y ago
    I need to bookmark your response, it really is the gold standard of “socialism is the answer” responses. “You have no solution so that’s not helpful.” I’m not offering you a target so I should be quiet. I’m not providing an alternative so the problem needs no more thought. No value from discussion not about socialism. Check. “Duh to anything where I agree with you, you simply misunderstood my words and Lenin’s words, and nothing you said is original.” Not looking for common ground. General negation. Check. “Progress is incremental,” and “we need solutions.” Rolls with shutting down discussion, socialism is the only viable and we have no time to look for alternatives, let’s just do. Check. “I suggest you read my book. You don’t understand it.” Check and check. From the above, I have to assume you are only interested in socialism, not the broader problems with the formation and decay of conscious society at a global scale. Let me know if that changes. Do you really not understand why socialism isn’t working? Why people might fear it could just as easily be corrupted as anything else? Your reply is practically performance art on the subject.
    - feet 4y ago
      Socialism doesn't work because the CIA loves to stick their nose into other countries at the behest of capital owners, this has also been publicly known for decades. As I said the problem has been identified long ago, restating the issue doesn't help anything. We need a solution. How do you even define consciousness of society?what does that even mean? How do you know it even changed?
      - catchnear4321 4y ago
        It also doesn’t work because of the attitudes of those professing it’s values when it comes to the non-believers. As I said I disagree with the dogma. The problem is not identified. That’s my disagreement. Just a symptom. And treatment of symptoms can be as problematic as the symptoms. Until the cause is addressed it isn’t going away. It also horrifies me that you suggest we move on from discussion because dead men have already discussed. That sounds awful conservative, tbph. Perhaps I should reread some things. “How do you even define consciousness of society?” Excellent question! But why do you phrase it in such a way as to suggest looking into the unknown and asking questions is a waste of time? Again, that sounds oddly the opposite of… progress.

by feet 4y ago

catchnear4321 4y ago

Set up a system to treat a symptom. Surely the actual problem would be capable of tainting that system as well, wouldn’t it? The slope is slippery and the cost is great. No, I’m not offering a solution. To the problem of capitalism, or to any other. But it is hard to get excited about more symptom solving. Greed comes close, but it is broader. A tyrant doesn’t have to be wealthy. Which is why another “ism” just doesn’t do it for me. Power doesn’t have to be draped in gold. (It just tends to be.)

feet 4y ago
I wasn't directly referring to wealth when I spoke about greed. People can be greedy for power over others. If you think the problem is innate to humans, we can't change it without changing humans themselves. At this point that is unrealistic, and we currently have a system that literally rewards greed. It rewards greed not only with money but with power. Political and corporate power systems reward greed, to make any progress that must be changed. Human progress is incremental, the next best step we can take is to implement mitigations to the innate issues present. You talk bad about "isms" but present no tangible solution. Quite frankly, that is not helpful. Greed for power has already been identified quite some time ago and systems have been thought up as mitigations to this problem. We need a tangible solution that we can put into place now because we have people suffering at the hands of others currently. I suggest you read about socialism and how the system is set up to mitigate these problems, as considering your statement about greed being able to taint the system, I don't think you understand how it works. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_State_and_Revolution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_State_and_Revolution
- catchnear4321 4y ago
  I need to bookmark your response, it really is the gold standard of “socialism is the answer” responses. “You have no solution so that’s not helpful.” I’m not offering you a target so I should be quiet. I’m not providing an alternative so the problem needs no more thought. No value from discussion not about socialism. Check. “Duh to anything where I agree with you, you simply misunderstood my words and Lenin’s words, and nothing you said is original.” Not looking for common ground. General negation. Check. “Progress is incremental,” and “we need solutions.” Rolls with shutting down discussion, socialism is the only viable and we have no time to look for alternatives, let’s just do. Check. “I suggest you read my book. You don’t understand it.” Check and check. From the above, I have to assume you are only interested in socialism, not the broader problems with the formation and decay of conscious society at a global scale. Let me know if that changes. Do you really not understand why socialism isn’t working? Why people might fear it could just as easily be corrupted as anything else? Your reply is practically performance art on the subject.
  - feet 4y ago
    Socialism doesn't work because the CIA loves to stick their nose into other countries at the behest of capital owners, this has also been publicly known for decades. As I said the problem has been identified long ago, restating the issue doesn't help anything. We need a solution. How do you even define consciousness of society?what does that even mean? How do you know it even changed?
    - catchnear4321 4y ago
      It also doesn’t work because of the attitudes of those professing it’s values when it comes to the non-believers. As I said I disagree with the dogma. The problem is not identified. That’s my disagreement. Just a symptom. And treatment of symptoms can be as problematic as the symptoms. Until the cause is addressed it isn’t going away. It also horrifies me that you suggest we move on from discussion because dead men have already discussed. That sounds awful conservative, tbph. Perhaps I should reread some things. “How do you even define consciousness of society?” Excellent question! But why do you phrase it in such a way as to suggest looking into the unknown and asking questions is a waste of time? Again, that sounds oddly the opposite of… progress.