4 ms·

Why "of course?" Why does it only provide _some_ protection and not full protection? How do we quantify _some_ protection? Why do I know people that have been

Why "of course?" Why does it only provide _some_ protection and not full protection? How do we quantify _some_ protection? Why do I know people that have been sick with Covid 4+ times? When does "of course" come into this?

colechristensen 4y ago
Because this is how immunity and evolution works? Like basic microbiology here is being denied or treated like it is surprising when it would otherwise just be basic facts from your first course in infectious diseases.
- uberduper 4y ago
  I see. You're pretending to know what you're talking about by claiming something was obvious _to you_ and anyone else that "knows what they're talking about."
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    I’m pretty sure before covid made disease doom a political issue you could have gotten most any kindergarten teacher to give you the same idea about how immunity works. I remember my own kindergarten teacher doing so when I was 5.
    - cwalv 4y ago
      > before covid made disease doom a political issue Seeing how the hyper-policization of covid "facts" made common-sense discussion almost impossible has been interesting to me. It's not the first time I've noticed it, but it's probably the clearest example in my experience of how once something becomes politicized and lines are drawn (and/or litmus tests identified), rational public discourse becomes extremely difficult/impossible.
- dv_dt 4y ago
  Previous released papers have found that the earlier Omicron variants did not provide protection from middle variants. (Original omicron vs BA1/2). So some bA.2 to BA4/5 immunity protection would be a new behavior. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abq1841 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abq1841
  - peteradio 4y ago
    Serology studies don't tell you health outcomes.
    - dv_dt 4y ago
      How is immune protection measured? It would seem like you can't skip serology measurements - otherwise how would one know if the participants even had an immune response to the variants you were studying? But it does make sense to further associate outcomes with the serology. But that doesn't have to happen in the same studies and coudl be covered by separate studies.
      - peteradio 4y ago
        Immunity doesn't only come from antibodies, but frustratingly we get misleading headlines like "prior infection from omicron does not boost immunity" or the like and when you look at where those statements are coming from you discover its based entirely on blood tests which only cover a narrow window of the immunity picture. Its like putting a hand over one eye and claiming you can't see.
  - jancsika 4y ago
    Of course some variants were found not to protect against reinfection. The inability to predict protection against future variants is stuff you'd learn in any first course in infectious diseases. People keep treating rocket science like it's epidemiology, but it really isn't.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    You are generalizing too much. “Did not provide protection” is not an adequate summary of your source.
- ljw1001 4y ago
  In science it’s extremely important to confirm expected findings and not just new stuff. Especially when important public health decisions will be made on the basis of those expectations
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    Sure, I’m not criticizing the science, and the varying amount of protection is an interesting and useful metric for managing the disease. The basic fact that there’s immunity for previously effected people which declines based on genetic distance of the variants though is not surprising and people even in this thread act like it is.
hadlock 4y ago
Immunity also depends on viral load. If you are hot-boxing in a tiny subcompact car for 48 hours cross country road trip with someone who is highly contagious, is different than sitting in a large, indoor restaurant across the table for an hour from someone who has covid, but is mostly recovered (I still wouldn't sit with this person, but seems to happen a lot) the viral load you will receive, is a lot less than the subcompact car scenario. Your friend could be immunocompromised, or they could be "living their best life" and spending a lot of time indoors with strangers, or both. It's hard to say. There are a lot of people I know who only eat on outdoor patios, minimize time indoors with others, but end up finally getting covid for the first time when a family member comes over for sunday night dinner and infects the entire household.
- logifail 4y ago
  > Immunity also depends on viral load It also appears to depend on what blood types the infected and not-yet-infected people have[0] Which intrigues me greatly, because no-one in my immediate family knows their blood type. Our middle child had Covid in March (infected at his school) and promptly gave it to my wife. He spent 10 days at home as he kept testing positive, she spent almost as long. Despite the rest of us taking no precautions whatsoever within our home, the other three of us were not infected. Then our eldest child had Covid in May (over half his school class were positive around that time), and he promptly gave it to me. The (ex-)scientist in me would now like to have our blood types checked! [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8286549/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8286549/

colechristensen 4y ago

Because this is how immunity and evolution works? Like basic microbiology here is being denied or treated like it is surprising when it would otherwise just be basic facts from your first course in infectious diseases.

uberduper 4y ago
I see. You're pretending to know what you're talking about by claiming something was obvious _to you_ and anyone else that "knows what they're talking about."
- colechristensen 4y ago
  I’m pretty sure before covid made disease doom a political issue you could have gotten most any kindergarten teacher to give you the same idea about how immunity works. I remember my own kindergarten teacher doing so when I was 5.
  - cwalv 4y ago
    > before covid made disease doom a political issue Seeing how the hyper-policization of covid "facts" made common-sense discussion almost impossible has been interesting to me. It's not the first time I've noticed it, but it's probably the clearest example in my experience of how once something becomes politicized and lines are drawn (and/or litmus tests identified), rational public discourse becomes extremely difficult/impossible.
dv_dt 4y ago
Previous released papers have found that the earlier Omicron variants did not provide protection from middle variants. (Original omicron vs BA1/2). So some bA.2 to BA4/5 immunity protection would be a new behavior. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abq1841 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abq1841
- peteradio 4y ago
  Serology studies don't tell you health outcomes.
  - dv_dt 4y ago
    How is immune protection measured? It would seem like you can't skip serology measurements - otherwise how would one know if the participants even had an immune response to the variants you were studying? But it does make sense to further associate outcomes with the serology. But that doesn't have to happen in the same studies and coudl be covered by separate studies.
    - peteradio 4y ago
      Immunity doesn't only come from antibodies, but frustratingly we get misleading headlines like "prior infection from omicron does not boost immunity" or the like and when you look at where those statements are coming from you discover its based entirely on blood tests which only cover a narrow window of the immunity picture. Its like putting a hand over one eye and claiming you can't see.
- jancsika 4y ago
  Of course some variants were found not to protect against reinfection. The inability to predict protection against future variants is stuff you'd learn in any first course in infectious diseases. People keep treating rocket science like it's epidemiology, but it really isn't.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  You are generalizing too much. “Did not provide protection” is not an adequate summary of your source.
ljw1001 4y ago
In science it’s extremely important to confirm expected findings and not just new stuff. Especially when important public health decisions will be made on the basis of those expectations
- colechristensen 4y ago
  Sure, I’m not criticizing the science, and the varying amount of protection is an interesting and useful metric for managing the disease. The basic fact that there’s immunity for previously effected people which declines based on genetic distance of the variants though is not surprising and people even in this thread act like it is.

hadlock 4y ago

Immunity also depends on viral load. If you are hot-boxing in a tiny subcompact car for 48 hours cross country road trip with someone who is highly contagious, is different than sitting in a large, indoor restaurant across the table for an hour from someone who has covid, but is mostly recovered (I still wouldn't sit with this person, but seems to happen a lot) the viral load you will receive, is a lot less than the subcompact car scenario. Your friend could be immunocompromised, or they could be "living their best life" and spending a lot of time indoors with strangers, or both. It's hard to say. There are a lot of people I know who only eat on outdoor patios, minimize time indoors with others, but end up finally getting covid for the first time when a family member comes over for sunday night dinner and infects the entire household.

logifail 4y ago
> Immunity also depends on viral load It also appears to depend on what blood types the infected and not-yet-infected people have[0] Which intrigues me greatly, because no-one in my immediate family knows their blood type. Our middle child had Covid in March (infected at his school) and promptly gave it to my wife. He spent 10 days at home as he kept testing positive, she spent almost as long. Despite the rest of us taking no precautions whatsoever within our home, the other three of us were not infected. Then our eldest child had Covid in May (over half his school class were positive around that time), and he promptly gave it to me. The (ex-)scientist in me would now like to have our blood types checked! [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8286549/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8286549/