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> By the same logic taxpayers shouldn't underwrite any renewables: they are significantly slower than nuclear, and have literally zero base load capacity. The

> By the same logic taxpayers shouldn't underwrite any renewables: they are significantly slower than nuclear, and have literally zero base load capacity. The cost for offshore wind projects has fallen so fast in the UK that the many of the latest projects don't need subsidies, see this report from Imperial College (London)[0], in fact they'll be paying the government, see this article from Bloomberg.[1] I'm pretty sceptical about the phrase 'base load', when it comes up, such as in a HN discussion[2] from a last week, it seems to be used to describe wanting to choose slow and/or expensive power plants. EDIT: See also this[3] recent HN discussion, in which it was pointed out "California has put emphasis on renewables and if the nuclear power station isn't guaranteed to provide base load then it's too expensive to operate" [0] https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/200353/offshore-wind-power-cheap-could-money/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/200353/offshore-wind-power-c... [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-13/high-power-prices-mean-wind-farms-are-paying-the-u-k-government https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-13/high-powe... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32152588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32152588 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31610996 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31610996

dmitriid 4y ago
> The cost for offshore wind projects has fallen so fast in the UK that the many of the latest projects don't need subsidies I'll have to check that. Sensational news usually omit quite a few important details. > I'm pretty sceptical about the phrase 'base load', when it comes up, such as in a HN discussion[2] from a last week, it seems to be used to describe wanting to choose slow and/or expensive power plants. No. It means that wind and solar literally produce zero output when there's no wind or there's no sun. However, life goes on: trains run, homes are being heated, businesses operate, factories produce goods. This is base load. So, to cover a wind farm or a solar farm that produces inadequate power you need to get that power from somewhere. Where from? And this is the question that renewables enthusiasts just brush off as not important. "We can store energy". No. We can't. Not in the amounts required. "We just build more". How much more? Does this "more" remain cheap then? Yea, you can transmit it from afar, but it's no mean task in itself. And not cheap either. But sure. "It's all about keeping slow power plants". What the hell does "slow" even mean in this context, when we're talking about wind/solar which can't even be properly used in load following precisely because they are extremely slow.

dmitriid 4y ago

> The cost for offshore wind projects has fallen so fast in the UK that the many of the latest projects don't need subsidies I'll have to check that. Sensational news usually omit quite a few important details. > I'm pretty sceptical about the phrase 'base load', when it comes up, such as in a HN discussion[2] from a last week, it seems to be used to describe wanting to choose slow and/or expensive power plants. No. It means that wind and solar literally produce zero output when there's no wind or there's no sun. However, life goes on: trains run, homes are being heated, businesses operate, factories produce goods. This is base load. So, to cover a wind farm or a solar farm that produces inadequate power you need to get that power from somewhere. Where from? And this is the question that renewables enthusiasts just brush off as not important. "We can store energy". No. We can't. Not in the amounts required. "We just build more". How much more? Does this "more" remain cheap then? Yea, you can transmit it from afar, but it's no mean task in itself. And not cheap either. But sure. "It's all about keeping slow power plants". What the hell does "slow" even mean in this context, when we're talking about wind/solar which can't even be properly used in load following precisely because they are extremely slow.