4 ms·

This is terrible. And to think there are people out there who want to get the government involved in more things, hah.

dr_dshiv 4y ago
Yeah, I want to get the government involved in changing this situation. Through a democratic process. And nuanced, non-black/white thinking.
- darkerside 4y ago
  Just pointing out that in today's world, representative democracy and nuanced thinking are almost mutually exclusive.
  - Tao3300 4y ago
    Are you saying that there are places without representative democracy that do have nuanced thought?
    - darkerside 4y ago
      No
      - Tao3300 4y ago
        Then you don't know what "mutually exclusive" means.
        darkerside 4y ago
        Right back atcha buddy
    - ALittleLight 4y ago
      Yes. What place lacks nuanced thought? How does democracy promote it?
  - bryanrasmussen 4y ago
    which countries are in today's world? what with the past not even being past and the future here but not evenly distributed, I'm thinking there might be some representative democracies somewhere that do manage nuanced thinking.
    - dr_dshiv 4y ago
      The Netherlands! Amazing governance. Very nuanced thinking. It is the most futuristic place I’ve ever lived.
      - happyopossum 4y ago
        Governance in a monoculture of 17m people is a lot simpler than governing a country like the US. Not saying we can’t do better, but if you dropped the govt of the Netherlands here, it would fail rather quickly. It’s a lot easier to have nuance and public support for government programs when everyone shares the same upbringing, culture, and beliefs.
        candiodari 4y ago
        The Dutch equivalent of DCS/CPS was caught placing at least 1670 children as a way to pressure their parents to pay a wrong tax charge. The number is provisional and it might be 16000 children. NONE of them have been allowed to go home, despite the government, the judicial system and the tax office being convicted, plus the government falling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_childcare_benefits_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_childcare_benefits_scand... Before that, there were 3 investigations by parliament into Youth Services in the Netherlands. ALL 3 found the large majority of kids taken into care by the government were physically abused by Youth Services personnel (mostly beatings, sex, some being forced to commit criminal acts, some were denied medical care, ...)
        HideousKojima 4y ago
        And in neighboring Germany their child services program intentionally placed foster children with pedophiles: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/07/26/the-german-experiment-that-placed-foster-children-with-pedophiles/amp https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/07/26/the-german-exp...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - framapotari 4y ago
    Are you including countries other than the US in today's world?
jrm4 4y ago
This itself is dangerous thinking; what people miss way too much is the variance across localities. Some are great and some are terrible -- but the whole "All government is terrible" mindset frequently enables even worse private intervention.
- Dracophoenix 4y ago
  Unless you've encountered anarchists, few truly think all government is terrible. Rather it's that government must always be scrutinized. Who will will intervene on you're behalf against a government that can have you castrated under an assumption that you're mentally deficient enough to deserve it (Buck vs Bell)? At least one can have his day in court against against another individual. However, thanks to broad interpretations of the 11th amendment, qualified immunity, and national security laws, the means to achieve vindication against government abuses have grown narrower.
  - jrm4 4y ago
    Wrong way to think about it. A lot of people, if interviewed, will never say out loud "All government is terrible," and yet will still knee-jerk react as if it is. I assure you that I can find a TON of people who will reactively cheer any reduction in "government" regardless of harm, who would never say they are anarchists. This is many, if not most, so-called "Libertarians."

Yeah, I want to get the government involved in changing this situation. Through a democratic process. And nuanced, non-black/white thinking.

darkerside 4y ago
Just pointing out that in today's world, representative democracy and nuanced thinking are almost mutually exclusive.
- Tao3300 4y ago
  Are you saying that there are places without representative democracy that do have nuanced thought?
  - darkerside 4y ago
    No
    - Tao3300 4y ago
      Then you don't know what "mutually exclusive" means.
      - darkerside 4y ago
        Right back atcha buddy
  - ALittleLight 4y ago
    Yes. What place lacks nuanced thought? How does democracy promote it?
- bryanrasmussen 4y ago
  which countries are in today's world? what with the past not even being past and the future here but not evenly distributed, I'm thinking there might be some representative democracies somewhere that do manage nuanced thinking.
  - dr_dshiv 4y ago
    The Netherlands! Amazing governance. Very nuanced thinking. It is the most futuristic place I’ve ever lived.
    - happyopossum 4y ago
      Governance in a monoculture of 17m people is a lot simpler than governing a country like the US. Not saying we can’t do better, but if you dropped the govt of the Netherlands here, it would fail rather quickly. It’s a lot easier to have nuance and public support for government programs when everyone shares the same upbringing, culture, and beliefs.
      - candiodari 4y ago
        The Dutch equivalent of DCS/CPS was caught placing at least 1670 children as a way to pressure their parents to pay a wrong tax charge. The number is provisional and it might be 16000 children. NONE of them have been allowed to go home, despite the government, the judicial system and the tax office being convicted, plus the government falling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_childcare_benefits_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_childcare_benefits_scand... Before that, there were 3 investigations by parliament into Youth Services in the Netherlands. ALL 3 found the large majority of kids taken into care by the government were physically abused by Youth Services personnel (mostly beatings, sex, some being forced to commit criminal acts, some were denied medical care, ...)
        HideousKojima 4y ago
        And in neighboring Germany their child services program intentionally placed foster children with pedophiles: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/07/26/the-german-experiment-that-placed-foster-children-with-pedophiles/amp https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/07/26/the-german-exp...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- framapotari 4y ago
  Are you including countries other than the US in today's world?

jrm4 4y ago

This itself is dangerous thinking; what people miss way too much is the variance across localities. Some are great and some are terrible -- but the whole "All government is terrible" mindset frequently enables even worse private intervention.

Dracophoenix 4y ago
Unless you've encountered anarchists, few truly think all government is terrible. Rather it's that government must always be scrutinized. Who will will intervene on you're behalf against a government that can have you castrated under an assumption that you're mentally deficient enough to deserve it (Buck vs Bell)? At least one can have his day in court against against another individual. However, thanks to broad interpretations of the 11th amendment, qualified immunity, and national security laws, the means to achieve vindication against government abuses have grown narrower.
- jrm4 4y ago
  Wrong way to think about it. A lot of people, if interviewed, will never say out loud "All government is terrible," and yet will still knee-jerk react as if it is. I assure you that I can find a TON of people who will reactively cheer any reduction in "government" regardless of harm, who would never say they are anarchists. This is many, if not most, so-called "Libertarians."