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> educated technocrat class is too tiny We (the Indian technocrat cohort) need to get into politics.

baybal2 4y ago
I would object, The Indian technocrat cohort is giant, and makes most of high grade ICS officials. Tons of engineers there, an irrefutable fact. On other hand, I would say civil service in India is horrifically elitist, and values degrees, over competency, and real experience.
- spaceman_2020 4y ago
  It always boggles my mind how much bureaucrats are venerated in India. IAS/IPS officers become legit celebrities. Part of my bear thesis on India is that no country can progress that venerates the bureaucracy.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - kamaal 4y ago
    Civil services, even state civil services were designed from the perspective that they would defacto govern the country. Which is actually a fact. No politician can hold a candle to civil services cadre in a country like India. Even before India got independence, the fact that most of India was unlettered and even with a democracy cannot make informed decisions was fairly obvious. This is apart from the fact that most elected representatives themselves cannot read/write, and even if they can they have little idea about how to run things. Even the good ones take a while to get a hang of things, and are not really trained to make policy decisions. Given most elected representatives are also more like 1 - 2 term politicians, they also can't think long term or anything beyond roads and drinking water. When you have a set up like this you need a dedicated cadre of life long administrators who can defacto govern the country. For all practical purposes civil services are ruling elite of India. They are also treated as such. The only real problem is the process of selection is made to select trivia scholars and people with a knack for theatricality than real competence. There is also an assumption that people who make it after such a process will be competent life long. Both the process and assumptions are wrong. The sheer small size(4500 people) of civil services cadres, far reaching powers, lack of accountability, assumption of static/growing competence, there is no concept of continuous learning or training. This creates a problem of scarcity. By that comes privilege, corruption, autocratic behaviour etc. Eventually these are like mini rulers of India. This is a big reason why even in corporate sectors everybody wants to be managers, there is an assumption that these management/administration jobs have no work, and unlimited power and perks. India's culture makes it look like a failure to work regular engineering jobs where you build things, take a salary and go home.
gopalv 4y ago
> We (the Indian technocrat cohort) need to get into politics This could be lifted out of Plato's Republic and it would be exactly as relevant. But the counter-point is that politicians run very close to their electorate's ideas (or selectorate's) - most politicians are not stupid people, so when you see them pushing stupid ideas, it is their commentary on the audience they are pandering to. I met Sam Pitroda in the late 90s. His commentary on C-DOT was a complete wet blanket on my theories of how the world is changing through technology. The theory is sort of the opposite of a "resource curse" - a "human resource curse" if you will. If what you end up exporting are humans, not things you dig out of the ground.
- mindentropy 4y ago
  >His commentary on C-DOT was a complete wet blanket on my theories of how the world is changing through technology. Could you expand on this? I am interested to know what were his opinions.
  - sandeep1998 4y ago
    Hello @mindtropy. I read your comment under an other post. You talked about having worked in embedded industry in last 16yrs and how you used to enjoy working on electronics earlier but don't care as much these days. Can we email? My address is in the bio.

I would object, The Indian technocrat cohort is giant, and makes most of high grade ICS officials. Tons of engineers there, an irrefutable fact. On other hand, I would say civil service in India is horrifically elitist, and values degrees, over competency, and real experience.

spaceman_2020 4y ago
It always boggles my mind how much bureaucrats are venerated in India. IAS/IPS officers become legit celebrities. Part of my bear thesis on India is that no country can progress that venerates the bureaucracy.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kamaal 4y ago
  Civil services, even state civil services were designed from the perspective that they would defacto govern the country. Which is actually a fact. No politician can hold a candle to civil services cadre in a country like India. Even before India got independence, the fact that most of India was unlettered and even with a democracy cannot make informed decisions was fairly obvious. This is apart from the fact that most elected representatives themselves cannot read/write, and even if they can they have little idea about how to run things. Even the good ones take a while to get a hang of things, and are not really trained to make policy decisions. Given most elected representatives are also more like 1 - 2 term politicians, they also can't think long term or anything beyond roads and drinking water. When you have a set up like this you need a dedicated cadre of life long administrators who can defacto govern the country. For all practical purposes civil services are ruling elite of India. They are also treated as such. The only real problem is the process of selection is made to select trivia scholars and people with a knack for theatricality than real competence. There is also an assumption that people who make it after such a process will be competent life long. Both the process and assumptions are wrong. The sheer small size(4500 people) of civil services cadres, far reaching powers, lack of accountability, assumption of static/growing competence, there is no concept of continuous learning or training. This creates a problem of scarcity. By that comes privilege, corruption, autocratic behaviour etc. Eventually these are like mini rulers of India. This is a big reason why even in corporate sectors everybody wants to be managers, there is an assumption that these management/administration jobs have no work, and unlimited power and perks. India's culture makes it look like a failure to work regular engineering jobs where you build things, take a salary and go home.

gopalv 4y ago

> We (the Indian technocrat cohort) need to get into politics This could be lifted out of Plato's Republic and it would be exactly as relevant. But the counter-point is that politicians run very close to their electorate's ideas (or selectorate's) - most politicians are not stupid people, so when you see them pushing stupid ideas, it is their commentary on the audience they are pandering to. I met Sam Pitroda in the late 90s. His commentary on C-DOT was a complete wet blanket on my theories of how the world is changing through technology. The theory is sort of the opposite of a "resource curse" - a "human resource curse" if you will. If what you end up exporting are humans, not things you dig out of the ground.

mindentropy 4y ago
>His commentary on C-DOT was a complete wet blanket on my theories of how the world is changing through technology. Could you expand on this? I am interested to know what were his opinions.
- sandeep1998 4y ago
  Hello @mindtropy. I read your comment under an other post. You talked about having worked in embedded industry in last 16yrs and how you used to enjoy working on electronics earlier but don't care as much these days. Can we email? My address is in the bio.