5 ms·

The 95.3% efficacy for Pfizer and 94.1% efficacy for Moderna are based on early studies. This is incredibly old news. We've since learned that the efficacy wane

by Flankk 4y ago

The 95.3% efficacy for Pfizer and 94.1% efficacy for Moderna are based on early studies. This is incredibly old news. We've since learned that the efficacy wanes over time. This was first evidenced by increasing case counts with Delta and then the huge resurgence in cases with the arrival of Omicron. In other words, you can only expect 95% efficacy for a number of weeks. That is why the narrative changed to instead focus on reduction in hospitalization.

kcplate 4y ago
Biden was literally boosted again in March. Has Covid-19 now, 15 weeks later. Fauci was double boosted in March and caught Covid 10 weeks later. My wife, who is fully vaccinated + 1 booster is presently fighting Covid and due to her asthma we took her to the ER on Friday. The ER doc told her that she has noticed that vaccinated Covid patients she has seen seem to have less hypoxia issues when they catch it but almost all of the people she sees are vaccinated. Maybe cases are milder if vaccinated, but really do we know this? How do you separate the difference between the variant causing a more mild case from the vaccine causing the variant to be milder. If a population is significantly vaccinated, but the unvaccinated have likely already contracted and developed a natural immunity, the # of unvaccinated, first time covid infected people might be rather small bit this is the control we need to measure natural immunity effectiveness from vaccine effectiveness on Covid variants spreading today.
- melling 4y ago
  We have known for a year that the vaccines don’t prevent the disease. Is there some reason we need to cover this again?
  - kcplate 4y ago
    Because the government is still actively pushing them.
    - melling 4y ago
      i’m sorry, but you haven’t explained why people should not get vaccinated. It would help the discussion if people got right to the point.
      - kcplate 4y ago
        I never made the claim that people should not get vaccinated. What I said was—vaccines and boosters do not prevent you from catching it or getting sick. I also said that it does not appear that we know for sure that the vaccines and boosters actually make the disease milder because we don’t seem to have statistics that show an effective control group of non-vaccinated, first time sufferers of Covid 19 reactions to the existing variants. A year ago, we were being told by the same people telling us now that the vaccines are effective at preventing severe disease…that the same vaccines prevent people from catching Covid. We also know that these same people have intentionally misled, emphasized problematic studies that supported their POV, and downplayed good studies that did not support their POV. They have played politics with science and that is bad. So it’s important to look at this pragmatically. If the experts are telling us that their advice has evolved as their understanding of the disease has improved, it’s reasonable to assume their current advice is as problematic as their past advice.
        melling 4y ago
        “What I said was—vaccines and boosters do not prevent you from catching it or getting sick. ” We knew this a year ago. I’m pretty sure from the current studies that we do know, or at least strongly believe, that the vaccines, etc do reduce hospitalizations and death. That would explain why they are recommended. However, if more data comes in, please update us.
        kcplate 4y ago
        > We knew this a year ago. Really? July of 2021 both President Biden and Dr. Fauci we’re making the claim on television that the vaccines “prevented” people from catching Covid. If it was known a year ago that this was not true, but they said it anyway…do you believe that makes their case for vaccines today more persuasive? More likely—“Current studies” at that time lead them to “know, or at least strongly believe” that the vaccines did prevent contracting the virus. Either they were lying, or they were wrong. Either one of those reasons is enough for me to apply a fair dose of skepticism and pragmatism to the topic. Perhaps you just have more faith than I do that this time things are different.
  - beej71 4y ago
    I haven't seen anything that says the vaccines had 0% efficacy. Link?
    - kcplate 4y ago
      Never said this. What I have said is that we don’t seem to have an adequate control group to truly know or not what efficacy the vaccines have for the current variants or if the current variants are simply less severe. Almost every study the government touts for vaccine efficacy now relies on correlation instead of causation evidence. I think that gives us cause to look at the information from the government with a skeptical eye.
      - beej71 4y ago
        You did say "vaccines don’t prevent the disease". How is that different than 0% efficacy?

by Flankk 4y ago

kcplate 4y ago

Biden was literally boosted again in March. Has Covid-19 now, 15 weeks later. Fauci was double boosted in March and caught Covid 10 weeks later. My wife, who is fully vaccinated + 1 booster is presently fighting Covid and due to her asthma we took her to the ER on Friday. The ER doc told her that she has noticed that vaccinated Covid patients she has seen seem to have less hypoxia issues when they catch it but almost all of the people she sees are vaccinated. Maybe cases are milder if vaccinated, but really do we know this? How do you separate the difference between the variant causing a more mild case from the vaccine causing the variant to be milder. If a population is significantly vaccinated, but the unvaccinated have likely already contracted and developed a natural immunity, the # of unvaccinated, first time covid infected people might be rather small bit this is the control we need to measure natural immunity effectiveness from vaccine effectiveness on Covid variants spreading today.

melling 4y ago
We have known for a year that the vaccines don’t prevent the disease. Is there some reason we need to cover this again?
- kcplate 4y ago
  Because the government is still actively pushing them.
  - melling 4y ago
    i’m sorry, but you haven’t explained why people should not get vaccinated. It would help the discussion if people got right to the point.
    - kcplate 4y ago
      I never made the claim that people should not get vaccinated. What I said was—vaccines and boosters do not prevent you from catching it or getting sick. I also said that it does not appear that we know for sure that the vaccines and boosters actually make the disease milder because we don’t seem to have statistics that show an effective control group of non-vaccinated, first time sufferers of Covid 19 reactions to the existing variants. A year ago, we were being told by the same people telling us now that the vaccines are effective at preventing severe disease…that the same vaccines prevent people from catching Covid. We also know that these same people have intentionally misled, emphasized problematic studies that supported their POV, and downplayed good studies that did not support their POV. They have played politics with science and that is bad. So it’s important to look at this pragmatically. If the experts are telling us that their advice has evolved as their understanding of the disease has improved, it’s reasonable to assume their current advice is as problematic as their past advice.
      - melling 4y ago
        “What I said was—vaccines and boosters do not prevent you from catching it or getting sick. ” We knew this a year ago. I’m pretty sure from the current studies that we do know, or at least strongly believe, that the vaccines, etc do reduce hospitalizations and death. That would explain why they are recommended. However, if more data comes in, please update us.
        kcplate 4y ago
        > We knew this a year ago. Really? July of 2021 both President Biden and Dr. Fauci we’re making the claim on television that the vaccines “prevented” people from catching Covid. If it was known a year ago that this was not true, but they said it anyway…do you believe that makes their case for vaccines today more persuasive? More likely—“Current studies” at that time lead them to “know, or at least strongly believe” that the vaccines did prevent contracting the virus. Either they were lying, or they were wrong. Either one of those reasons is enough for me to apply a fair dose of skepticism and pragmatism to the topic. Perhaps you just have more faith than I do that this time things are different.
- beej71 4y ago
  I haven't seen anything that says the vaccines had 0% efficacy. Link?
  - kcplate 4y ago
    Never said this. What I have said is that we don’t seem to have an adequate control group to truly know or not what efficacy the vaccines have for the current variants or if the current variants are simply less severe. Almost every study the government touts for vaccine efficacy now relies on correlation instead of causation evidence. I think that gives us cause to look at the information from the government with a skeptical eye.
    - beej71 4y ago
      You did say "vaccines don’t prevent the disease". How is that different than 0% efficacy?