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The underlying principle I've been using to understand this is, no engineer worth their salt will be spending a material amount of time working at an organizati

The underlying principle I've been using to understand this is, no engineer worth their salt will be spending a material amount of time working at an organization that they don't believe utilizes their talents well. The opportunity cost of talented software engineers is much too high in general. This applies regardless of actual talent and does not guarantee results. I've seen mediocre SWEs with inflated egos jump around because they felt their "world class" talents weren't being put to good use, some unsuccessfully, but some rather successfully fooling their way through the ranks of management. But I've also (more frequently) seen disillusioned, extremely talented engineers leave an org that was paying them obscenely well already, but was making them feel like they were wasting their time, for a shot at a startup dice roll which does not pay off as well (on average).

ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> no engineer worth their salt will be spending a material amount of time working at an organization that they don't believe utilizes their talents well So is everyone developing advertising at google is a second rate engineer?
- kidgorgeous 4y ago
  Yes. First rate engineers are designing rockets at Space-X
- allgreed 4y ago
  I think believes is the key here. There are definitely people who believe that if they can work on complex graph colouring problem in a real-time processing scenario and the interruptions are minimal - then indeed their talent is utilised well. And I can imagine such a scenario happening at Google in advertising department/division/tribe .
  - jb3689 4y ago
    There are plenty of critical, unglamorous jobs which need to be done. It’s not unreasonable for an engineer to value high six figure/seven figure salaries over a feeling of work fulfillment and skill utilization
- dilyevsky 4y ago
  In my time Ads org had some pretty interesting engineering challenges, relatively fast promotion track and good pay
- walls 4y ago
  Just look at the state of almost every google project.
throwaway98797 4y ago
lol brilliant engineers can have crippling life leaks that make them work at shitty but well paid places
davesque 4y ago
This would only be true if finding another job was a simple (and reliable) process for most people. I imagine you might come back and say, "But finding another job should be easy for a talented engineer!" To which I would say, nope! Not true! The tech interview grind is often inconsistent and demoralizing. Even talented people might make a reasonable calculation to avoid the trouble and just stick with their current job.
- bradlys 4y ago
  Correct. People also assume that you’re always going to get paid more at a new gig. This just isn’t true in SV. If you joined a startup and it rocketships - I’ve seen many smart engineers stick around for years just because they have a 7-fig TC. Why would they move elsewhere? Just isn’t financially responsible and most are willing to suffer through it as far as I’ve seen.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

> no engineer worth their salt will be spending a material amount of time working at an organization that they don't believe utilizes their talents well So is everyone developing advertising at google is a second rate engineer?

kidgorgeous 4y ago
Yes. First rate engineers are designing rockets at Space-X
allgreed 4y ago
I think believes is the key here. There are definitely people who believe that if they can work on complex graph colouring problem in a real-time processing scenario and the interruptions are minimal - then indeed their talent is utilised well. And I can imagine such a scenario happening at Google in advertising department/division/tribe .
- jb3689 4y ago
  There are plenty of critical, unglamorous jobs which need to be done. It’s not unreasonable for an engineer to value high six figure/seven figure salaries over a feeling of work fulfillment and skill utilization
dilyevsky 4y ago
In my time Ads org had some pretty interesting engineering challenges, relatively fast promotion track and good pay
walls 4y ago
Just look at the state of almost every google project.

throwaway98797 4y ago

lol brilliant engineers can have crippling life leaks that make them work at shitty but well paid places

davesque 4y ago

This would only be true if finding another job was a simple (and reliable) process for most people. I imagine you might come back and say, "But finding another job should be easy for a talented engineer!" To which I would say, nope! Not true! The tech interview grind is often inconsistent and demoralizing. Even talented people might make a reasonable calculation to avoid the trouble and just stick with their current job.

bradlys 4y ago
Correct. People also assume that you’re always going to get paid more at a new gig. This just isn’t true in SV. If you joined a startup and it rocketships - I’ve seen many smart engineers stick around for years just because they have a 7-fig TC. Why would they move elsewhere? Just isn’t financially responsible and most are willing to suffer through it as far as I’ve seen.