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The fact that the USA population is notoriously anti-union, and Amazon nevertheless managed to put the union option back on the table. FWIW, I stopped using Am

The fact that the USA population is notoriously anti-union, and Amazon nevertheless managed to put the union option back on the table. FWIW, I stopped using Amazon when the German strikes started and we found out what was going on. Europe can live without abusive companies like that, even if it makes our stuff a bit more expensive. I know I wasn't the only one.

fauigerzigerk 4y ago
I'm a bit sceptical that the political controversy around Amazon is an accurate reflection of their desirability as an employer compared to other companies.
phpisthebest 4y ago
I worked for Walmart, as stocker, at the height of the anti-walmart (which amazon has now seemed to replace) rhetoric, While walmart was not perfect, and some middle managers could make life hell for some workers, as a company most of the crap I saw on the news was just rhetoric or things taken out of context by union organizers for the purposes for try to get a union installed. Having lived through that, I see alot of that being echo'ed in the amazon debate. Unions look to gain ALOT of revenue from unionizing these companies, I am not sure why everyone always assumes the motivation of the union is altruistic and the motivations of the company is always evil The world is much more Gray than the employee vs management dynamic people seem to subscribe
- hyperman1 4y ago
  As someone from Western Europe, there are some assumptions in here that I can't agree with. Both a company and a union do their little dances on the news. Nobody believes either one is telling 100% of the truth. We've all seen unions start strikes for stupid reasons, or sing la-la-la-I-cant hear-you when a member clearly needed help But, it's common around here to have multiple unions in 1 company. You can shop around if you don't like one. You can not join any union. This market dynamic makes unions compete for you. Both unions and workers also understand that they won't gain anything if they drive a company out of business or to another country. Specifically for Amazon, we've never heard much about Walmart or anti-walmart rhetoric over here. We have hard discounters which can be demanding for their employees, but they don't clash that hard or that regularly as Amazon does. Things like the bottle peeing are new around here, and confirmed by other parties than the unions. Ignoring collective agreements is also unheard of for a company of this scale. The underlying general idea around Amazon seems that it tries to import an US-style no-rights-worker model into Europe. If that takes root, we're all worse off. People sympathize with that, even if it is rarely enough to counter the siren song of cheap goods.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    >>But, it's common around here to have multiple unions in 1 company. that is not the US system and why I personally get sooo frustrated with Europeans commenting on US labor relation, and US Unions. Europeans look at the issue from their lens, of their laws, and their unions which is completely different from the US. You can not compare the two at all. At best in the US if you happen to be in a right to work state you can choose not the join the (and I mean THE, singular) union that represents the work force at the company. that is a "labor" union The closest we have to EU style unions would be a trade union, but even then normally there is a single union that represents a trade, like the "Screen Actors Guild" for actors. There are not multiples. >Specifically for Amazon, we've never heard much about Walmart or anti-walmart rhetoric over here. Anti-Walmart rhetoric started to die off around 2010. >Things like the bottle peeing are new around here, and confirmed by other parties than the unions. It is in the US as well, and i take these stories with extreme skepticism. >The underlying general idea around Amazon seems that it tries to import an US-style no-rights-worker model into Europe Again the US has plenty of labor laws, the primary difference between the US and Europe is the amount of required paid benefits an employer must offer, but abusive actions (such as forcing an employee to pee in a bottle) is no more legal in the US than in Europe > If that takes root, we're all worse off. I have no problems with US Labor laws, remember the US is very individualist, and for the most part, most of the population prefers this. I have no desire to have the government dictate to me and my employer how many vacation days I have must have or things like that. I am not soo extreme as I to say all labor laws should go away, I think laws that prevent true abuse (like requiring an employee to pee in a bottle, or requiring employees to stand for hours off the clock at security check points unpaid) are area's where the government can and should step in, but that is where it should end.

fauigerzigerk 4y ago

I'm a bit sceptical that the political controversy around Amazon is an accurate reflection of their desirability as an employer compared to other companies.

phpisthebest 4y ago

I worked for Walmart, as stocker, at the height of the anti-walmart (which amazon has now seemed to replace) rhetoric, While walmart was not perfect, and some middle managers could make life hell for some workers, as a company most of the crap I saw on the news was just rhetoric or things taken out of context by union organizers for the purposes for try to get a union installed. Having lived through that, I see alot of that being echo'ed in the amazon debate. Unions look to gain ALOT of revenue from unionizing these companies, I am not sure why everyone always assumes the motivation of the union is altruistic and the motivations of the company is always evil The world is much more Gray than the employee vs management dynamic people seem to subscribe

hyperman1 4y ago
As someone from Western Europe, there are some assumptions in here that I can't agree with. Both a company and a union do their little dances on the news. Nobody believes either one is telling 100% of the truth. We've all seen unions start strikes for stupid reasons, or sing la-la-la-I-cant hear-you when a member clearly needed help But, it's common around here to have multiple unions in 1 company. You can shop around if you don't like one. You can not join any union. This market dynamic makes unions compete for you. Both unions and workers also understand that they won't gain anything if they drive a company out of business or to another country. Specifically for Amazon, we've never heard much about Walmart or anti-walmart rhetoric over here. We have hard discounters which can be demanding for their employees, but they don't clash that hard or that regularly as Amazon does. Things like the bottle peeing are new around here, and confirmed by other parties than the unions. Ignoring collective agreements is also unheard of for a company of this scale. The underlying general idea around Amazon seems that it tries to import an US-style no-rights-worker model into Europe. If that takes root, we're all worse off. People sympathize with that, even if it is rarely enough to counter the siren song of cheap goods.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  >>But, it's common around here to have multiple unions in 1 company. that is not the US system and why I personally get sooo frustrated with Europeans commenting on US labor relation, and US Unions. Europeans look at the issue from their lens, of their laws, and their unions which is completely different from the US. You can not compare the two at all. At best in the US if you happen to be in a right to work state you can choose not the join the (and I mean THE, singular) union that represents the work force at the company. that is a "labor" union The closest we have to EU style unions would be a trade union, but even then normally there is a single union that represents a trade, like the "Screen Actors Guild" for actors. There are not multiples. >Specifically for Amazon, we've never heard much about Walmart or anti-walmart rhetoric over here. Anti-Walmart rhetoric started to die off around 2010. >Things like the bottle peeing are new around here, and confirmed by other parties than the unions. It is in the US as well, and i take these stories with extreme skepticism. >The underlying general idea around Amazon seems that it tries to import an US-style no-rights-worker model into Europe Again the US has plenty of labor laws, the primary difference between the US and Europe is the amount of required paid benefits an employer must offer, but abusive actions (such as forcing an employee to pee in a bottle) is no more legal in the US than in Europe > If that takes root, we're all worse off. I have no problems with US Labor laws, remember the US is very individualist, and for the most part, most of the population prefers this. I have no desire to have the government dictate to me and my employer how many vacation days I have must have or things like that. I am not soo extreme as I to say all labor laws should go away, I think laws that prevent true abuse (like requiring an employee to pee in a bottle, or requiring employees to stand for hours off the clock at security check points unpaid) are area's where the government can and should step in, but that is where it should end.