5 ms·

"It is interesting " What exactly is interesting? Hate speech is bad, unless it is directed at Russians and then it is not hate speech but 'accurate representa

by gdy 4y ago

"It is interesting " What exactly is interesting? Hate speech is bad, unless it is directed at Russians and then it is not hate speech but 'accurate representation'? 'In Russia, "hate speech" would be something that the government does not approve of' Not really. 'The motive of political hatred' can be added to the case as an aggravating circumstance, but the charge itself is 'discreditation of Russian army' or 'spreading misinformation'. Not that it makes much difference, since the war began life's got scary in Russia in this respect. 'even saying that patriotism is not kissing the ass of the President' 'a person got arrested for that' Is this what you call 'propagating the truth'? Yuriy Shevchuk said a lot of things during his concert but he was never arrested and the court dismissed charges of administrative misconduct for the lack of substance. The prosecutor is going to try again though, but I hope for a good ending -- Shevchuk has a lot of respect in Russian society.

DonHopkins 4y ago
- gdy 4y ago
  Nobody should be violently persecuted unless they have violently hurt other people first and our government quite often disregards human rights. As for gays, our government haven't intervened (at least publicly) when gays reportedly got violently persecuted in Chechnya. Also our government often doesn't notice hate speech towards gays (hello, Milonov) or punishes rather mildly when it does notice. Still, I don't think our government thinks that gays should be violently persecuted, it currently only opposes people going to children and saying that homosexuality is normal. There is a couple of draft laws basically striking out 'children' in the previous sentence, we shall see how things will develop.
  - DonHopkins 4y ago
    - gdy 4y ago
      Have you stopped beating your partner? Let's see if you dodge this question before I answer yours.
      - DonHopkins 4y ago
        gdy 4y ago
        Let's see if you accept my answer as I accepted yours. I don't believe our government thinks that gays should be violently persecuted.
        DonHopkins 4y ago
        gdy 4y ago
        "And you should know better." Do I? Please quote the wikipedia article you linked to. "You also dodged all the other questions about what YOU believe, again. Why are you so coy and shy about that? Do you have something to hide?" I don't feel like answering them. "Do you prefer that gay Russian children commit suicide" Quoting from your own link: "Because reliable data does not exist, we do not know whether LGBT youth die by suicide more frequently than their straight peers". I don't want any "children commit suicide and be beaten and murdered". Or adults. You see the root of the problem in homosexuality not considered normal, I see the root of the problem in shitty people who bully and attack ones who are not considered normal. Gay, fat, short, disabled, ugly, weak, stupid, weird, nerdy, anything else -- none of them deserve to be harassed.
        DonHopkins 4y ago
smsm42 4y ago
The interesting part is a cynical attempt to use a Western culture war weapon in order to promote Russia, which rejects Western values and hates and wants to destroy both sides.
- gdy 4y ago
  You are quite mistaken. The notion of hate speech is not unique for Western culture. Article 282 in Russian Criminal Codex exists since Eltsin time (1996) and addresses incitement of hatred on racial, religious and ethnic grounds. It itself is based on similar article from Soviet times (1960). In 2003 it was extended by Putin in include hate speech based on gender, language, origin and social stratum. You can read the story here: https://tass.ru/info/5930296 https://tass.ru/info/5930296
  - smsm42 4y ago
    > The notion of hate speech is not unique for Western culture. Of course not. But you are using it as a weapon agains Western culture, trying to trigger it into self-harm. Not because you care about Western values and not promoting hate, but because you see a vulnerability that you could exploit - tell somebody "it's hate speech" and they'd run in panic. Except the trick is now obvious, so it won't work. > Article 282 in Russian Criminal Codex Oh the lovely 282, how we all adore it. Of course totalitarian dictatorship that rules Russia now will suppress speech, and 282 is where it started (now there are more, of course, it never stops). Only then it was "extremist" speech. I don't need to read TASS (blergh! these guys actually kept SS in their name - all you need to know about them, really) to know about 282, thank you very much. But nobody here cares about 282. You can not deploy 282 here to suppress speech you don't like. So you call it "hate speech" instead, hoping to solicit culture war reaction that you know exists in the West and thus avoid discussing the real issues.
    - gdy 4y ago
      >But you are using it as a weapon agains Western culture, trying to trigger it into self-harm. That's funny, so now calling out double standards is 'trying to trigger Western culture into self-harm'. Because noticing your own hypocrisy hurts so much, poor you.

by gdy 4y ago

DonHopkins 4y ago

gdy 4y ago
Nobody should be violently persecuted unless they have violently hurt other people first and our government quite often disregards human rights. As for gays, our government haven't intervened (at least publicly) when gays reportedly got violently persecuted in Chechnya. Also our government often doesn't notice hate speech towards gays (hello, Milonov) or punishes rather mildly when it does notice. Still, I don't think our government thinks that gays should be violently persecuted, it currently only opposes people going to children and saying that homosexuality is normal. There is a couple of draft laws basically striking out 'children' in the previous sentence, we shall see how things will develop.
- DonHopkins 4y ago
  - gdy 4y ago
    Have you stopped beating your partner? Let's see if you dodge this question before I answer yours.
    - DonHopkins 4y ago
      - gdy 4y ago
        Let's see if you accept my answer as I accepted yours. I don't believe our government thinks that gays should be violently persecuted.
        DonHopkins 4y ago
        gdy 4y ago
        "And you should know better." Do I? Please quote the wikipedia article you linked to. "You also dodged all the other questions about what YOU believe, again. Why are you so coy and shy about that? Do you have something to hide?" I don't feel like answering them. "Do you prefer that gay Russian children commit suicide" Quoting from your own link: "Because reliable data does not exist, we do not know whether LGBT youth die by suicide more frequently than their straight peers". I don't want any "children commit suicide and be beaten and murdered". Or adults. You see the root of the problem in homosexuality not considered normal, I see the root of the problem in shitty people who bully and attack ones who are not considered normal. Gay, fat, short, disabled, ugly, weak, stupid, weird, nerdy, anything else -- none of them deserve to be harassed.
        DonHopkins 4y ago

smsm42 4y ago

The interesting part is a cynical attempt to use a Western culture war weapon in order to promote Russia, which rejects Western values and hates and wants to destroy both sides.

gdy 4y ago
You are quite mistaken. The notion of hate speech is not unique for Western culture. Article 282 in Russian Criminal Codex exists since Eltsin time (1996) and addresses incitement of hatred on racial, religious and ethnic grounds. It itself is based on similar article from Soviet times (1960). In 2003 it was extended by Putin in include hate speech based on gender, language, origin and social stratum. You can read the story here: https://tass.ru/info/5930296 https://tass.ru/info/5930296
- smsm42 4y ago
  > The notion of hate speech is not unique for Western culture. Of course not. But you are using it as a weapon agains Western culture, trying to trigger it into self-harm. Not because you care about Western values and not promoting hate, but because you see a vulnerability that you could exploit - tell somebody "it's hate speech" and they'd run in panic. Except the trick is now obvious, so it won't work. > Article 282 in Russian Criminal Codex Oh the lovely 282, how we all adore it. Of course totalitarian dictatorship that rules Russia now will suppress speech, and 282 is where it started (now there are more, of course, it never stops). Only then it was "extremist" speech. I don't need to read TASS (blergh! these guys actually kept SS in their name - all you need to know about them, really) to know about 282, thank you very much. But nobody here cares about 282. You can not deploy 282 here to suppress speech you don't like. So you call it "hate speech" instead, hoping to solicit culture war reaction that you know exists in the West and thus avoid discussing the real issues.
  - gdy 4y ago
    >But you are using it as a weapon agains Western culture, trying to trigger it into self-harm. That's funny, so now calling out double standards is 'trying to trigger Western culture into self-harm'. Because noticing your own hypocrisy hurts so much, poor you.