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From the article: “Haiti paid millions of dollars every year to France until the debt was finally paid off in 1947.”

by jahnu 4y ago

throwawaylinux 4y ago
Seemed to be right after that Haiti began to rapidly fall behind the Dominican Republic in GDP per capita. Also from the article "But the debt payments were a fraction of customs revenues, which were themselves a small fraction of the Haitian economy. Furthermore, the most significant divergence came long after the debt was paid off."
- jahnu 4y ago
  I read the article. I just wanted to point out that statement was entirely incorrect. As for the top comment the point they are making is that you can’t have a conversation about Haiti without including all the details. All history is complicated and leaving out or downplaying major pieces of the story is a bad idea. There is no one simple explanation that answers the article’s question.
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    The top comment missed this part of the article entirely where they actually did mention and consider some effects of colonialism, and dismissed it as a major factor (due to the reasons given in the part I quoted, and more, "Indeed, Mats Lundahl, the leading economic historian of Haiti, does not even include the indemnity in his list of decisive events in Haiti’s economic history."). Whether that was wrong or too simplistic might be up for debate but the assertion that they didn't mention imperialism is just incorrect.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  What does most significant divergence mean? https://vodoueconomics.substack.com/p/dont-believe-the-haitidr-graph https://vodoueconomics.substack.com/p/dont-believe-the-haiti...
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    "I’m going crazy because even though I know the graph is wrong, I don’t have direct evidence to refute it." Should have stopped reading there. Seems like an unhinged, expletive-heavy and evidence-light rant. Most significant divergence means that before around that time the GDP per capita of the two countries were traking quite closely, and afterward, DR's GDP per capita started to grow while Haiti's remained flat, the difference today being over 5x.
mytailorisrich 4y ago
Which has nothing to do with anything (payments were very small amounts for a country as mentioned in the article), especially the way Haiti has been run by its government, and taking into account that we are now in 2022. France is used as a convenient scapegoat for Haiti's problems partly because of the nasty way independence occurred and partly because it's sometimes easier to blame others than to take responsibility.
- jahnu 4y ago
  You should have written that opinion then instead of the simply incorrect assertion I responded to.
grapeskin 4y ago
Some countries have been completely dominated and leveled to the ground by foreign forces more recently than that but perform better economically. Some had straight up genocides.

From the article: “Haiti paid millions of dollars every year to France until the debt was finally paid off in 1947.”

by jahnu 4y ago

From the article: “Haiti paid millions of dollars every year to France until the debt was finally paid off in 1947.”

Seemed to be right after that Haiti began to rapidly fall behind the Dominican Republic in GDP per capita. Also from the article "But the debt payments were a fraction of customs revenues, which were themselves a small fraction of the Haitian economy. Furthermore, the most significant divergence came long after the debt was paid off."

jahnu 4y ago
I read the article. I just wanted to point out that statement was entirely incorrect. As for the top comment the point they are making is that you can’t have a conversation about Haiti without including all the details. All history is complicated and leaving out or downplaying major pieces of the story is a bad idea. There is no one simple explanation that answers the article’s question.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  The top comment missed this part of the article entirely where they actually did mention and consider some effects of colonialism, and dismissed it as a major factor (due to the reasons given in the part I quoted, and more, "Indeed, Mats Lundahl, the leading economic historian of Haiti, does not even include the indemnity in his list of decisive events in Haiti’s economic history."). Whether that was wrong or too simplistic might be up for debate but the assertion that they didn't mention imperialism is just incorrect.
selimthegrim 4y ago
What does most significant divergence mean? https://vodoueconomics.substack.com/p/dont-believe-the-haitidr-graph https://vodoueconomics.substack.com/p/dont-believe-the-haiti...
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  "I’m going crazy because even though I know the graph is wrong, I don’t have direct evidence to refute it." Should have stopped reading there. Seems like an unhinged, expletive-heavy and evidence-light rant. Most significant divergence means that before around that time the GDP per capita of the two countries were traking quite closely, and afterward, DR's GDP per capita started to grow while Haiti's remained flat, the difference today being over 5x.

mytailorisrich 4y ago

Which has nothing to do with anything (payments were very small amounts for a country as mentioned in the article), especially the way Haiti has been run by its government, and taking into account that we are now in 2022. France is used as a convenient scapegoat for Haiti's problems partly because of the nasty way independence occurred and partly because it's sometimes easier to blame others than to take responsibility.

jahnu 4y ago
You should have written that opinion then instead of the simply incorrect assertion I responded to.

grapeskin 4y ago

Some countries have been completely dominated and leveled to the ground by foreign forces more recently than that but perform better economically. Some had straight up genocides.